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Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test!

Woeo

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I'm way more interested in the 10-80% DCFC charging power than I am the 80%+ DCFC charging power. I may never DCFC charge over 80% for my entire ownership of the MME. Even if that stays at ~12 kW permanently, it's inconsequential for most people (although I recognize that some people might be in position to need it, and that tail end would take 2-4x longer than others). If I were in such a position, I'd be more concerned. But I'm not.
That is such a head in the sand attitude. You’ll never DCFC charge above 80% until you need to do so. Then you’ll be stuck charging for an hour 10-80 and a second hour 80-90, and a third hour 90-100 unless Ford addresses this.

And if you truly believe you’ll never charge above 80% then stop commenting that L2 rates are inconsequential. This doesn’t concern you.
 
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That is such a head in the sand attitude. You’ll never DCFC charge above 80% until you need to do so. Then you’ll be stuck charging for an hour 10-80 and a second hour 80-90, and a third hour 90-100 unless Ford addresses this.

And if you truly believe you’ll never charge above 80% then stop commenting that L2 rates are inconsequential. This doesn’t concern you.
Until we have to. Ones that complain about 10 minutes of inconvenience due to a couple of KW 0 to 80% do not understand that it is not an inconvenience but it will not work for road trips and be of very limited use at cold temperatures.

With the current info available of L2 charge rate on DCFC at 80% and the promise from Ford only up to 80% it is now possible that we will be taking our vehicles, which we paid for with a 100 KWh pack, with only 70 KWh usable for road trips. That's 30% degradation before it gets off the lot. All here are happy with that and defend it; it is delivery times during a pandemic they get pissed at. Blows my mind. If 100 KWh packs remain only 70 KWh usable on the highway the internet will eat them up and our resell value will be hit. If it stays like that it will be because of a major defect but will still be as advertised (88 KWh usable once at home on a trip). Oh ya you can use it on the road just sit at the DCFC for another 2 hours after 80% to get it there. Gotta change as this makes no sense unless defective.
 

dbsb3233

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That is such a head in the sand attitude. You’ll never DCFC charge above 80% until you need to do so. Then you’ll be stuck charging for an hour 10-80 and a second hour 80-90, and a third hour 90-100 unless Ford addresses this.

And if you truly believe you’ll never charge above 80% then stop commenting that L2 rates are inconsequential. This doesn’t concern you.
It's just reality. Sorry if that bothers you. Fact is it's representative of most other drivers too. Most simply won't be DCFC charging above 80%. Ford recommends not even doing it (and it's a common recommendation for BEVs in general). And I seriously doubt the production cars will charge at just 12 kW at 80% anyway (initially, or for very long before updated).

If you're one of the few that has a need to DCFC above 80%, then fine, worry about it. No one is stopping you.
 

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It's just reality. Sorry if that bothers you. Fact is it's representative of most other drivers too. Most simply won't be DCFC charging above 80%. Ford recommends not even doing it (and it's a common recommendation for BEVs in general). And I seriously doubt the production cars will charge at just 12 kW at 80% anyway (initially, or for very long before updated).

If you're one of the few that has a need to DCFC above 80%, then fine, worry about it. No one is stopping you.
Why do you think DCFC charging wouldn’t be needed above 80%? If someone is on a road trip, you may have very large gaps between DCFC chargers, particularly in the West. And if you’re on a road trip, you might be cruising between 70 and 80mph, so you are definitely not getting the EPA range, so it’s very much a situation where someone may want to charge up to 100%.

Maybe there is a good reason to limit it for battery preservation but I think they should still try to proportionately step it down so it doesn’t take forever to get to 100% on a L3 charger.
 

dbsb3233

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Why do you think DCFC charging wouldn’t be needed above 80%? If someone is on a road trip, you may have very large gaps between DCFC chargers, particularly in the West. And if you’re on a road trip, you might be cruising between 70 and 80mph, so you are definitely not getting the EPA range, so it’s very much a situation where someone may want to charge up to 100%.

Maybe there is a good reason to limit it for battery preservation but I think they should still try to proportionately step it down so it doesn’t take forever to get to 100% on a L3 charger.
Oh I wholly agree about hoping it steps down more gradually at 80% instead of falling off the cliff like we've seen in a few anecdotal preproduction examples. I was expecting something in the 25-50 kW rate, which is more typical. I'm still hoping it's that way in the production cars (immediately, or via subsequent OTA).

But even that's getting pretty slow, to the point where I think most people would stop as long as there's a charger in range. Even in high speed in chilly weather in the AWD ER, that's probably around 130 miles between 10-80% by my estimate. And most interstate routes (where there's coverage to do a road trip at all) have chargers spaced at least that often.

That's not to say that it can't happen, of course (needing more than 80% on a leg beyond the 100% first home or destination charge). But I think it's probably fairly rare. And it can still be done, it's just a matter of how long it will take. I'm betting that it won't be just 12 kW in the production cars (for long, anyway).
 

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It's just reality. Sorry if that bothers you. Fact is it's representative of most other drivers too. Most simply won't be DCFC charging above 80%. Ford recommends not even doing it (and it's a common recommendation for BEVs in general). And I seriously doubt the production cars will charge at just 12 kW at 80% anyway (initially, or for very long before updated).

If you're one of the few that has a need to DCFC above 80%, then fine, worry about it. No one is stopping you.
All good and we understand your logic of every man for himself. You not saving a 1000 bucks or so was not to concerning to me either.

Since what you suggest would be highly unusual, from a historical perspective, do you thing Ford should issue a statement to that extent and their plans moving forward? Information and a statement of this nature is not hindered by anything else going on. If that turns out to be the case and only a few, that dug it up, know would you find that to be highly ethical if not disclosed?

Also something about on the SR highway usable? Something about the OPer or Kyles charging? I am going to jump of board with Ford's lack of communication. This one is not understandable due to world conditions and is just a PITA.
 

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Another time where charging over 80% at a DCFC would be necessary is at the end of your trip where there is no L2 charger available. You may need to charge enough at the DCFC to allow for some drive time at your destination and then still have enough to get back to the DCFC for the return trip.
 

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Another time where charging over 80% at a DCFC would be necessary is at the end of your trip where there is no L2 charger available. You may need to charge enough at the DCFC to allow for some drive time at your destination and then still have enough to get back to the DCFC for the return trip.
That is what the portable charger included with the car is for. Even if you only find a 120V outlet you could top off the car overnight after bringing it up to 80% at the local DCFC.
 

dbsb3233

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Another time where charging over 80% at a DCFC would be necessary is at the end of your trip where there is no L2 charger available. You may need to charge enough at the DCFC to allow for some drive time at your destination and then still have enough to get back to the DCFC for the return trip.
True, destination charging is another issue to deal with when taking a BEV on a road trip (just like charging along the way). There's certainly numerous routes and numerous destinations that aren't doable in a BEV. All part of the equation to determine whether a particular trip is even reasonable in a BEV.
 

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That is what the portable charger included with the car is for. Even if you only find a 120V outlet you could top off the car overnight after bringing it up to 80% at the local DCFC.
At 3 miles an hour that's what we all want; to tether it for the weekend. Must be some of that mustang DNA coming out. I get it; it is a bit difficult defending the undefendable?
 

dbsb3233

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All good and we understand your logic of every man for himself. You not saving a 1000 bucks or so was not to concerning to me either.

Since what you suggest would be highly unusual, from a historical perspective, do you thing Ford should issue a statement to that extent and their plans moving forward? Information and a statement of this nature is not hindered by anything else going on. If that turns out to be the case and only a few, that dug it up, know would you find that to be highly ethical if not disclosed?

Also something about on the SR highway usable? Something about the OPer or Kyles charging? I am going to jump of board with Ford's lack of communication. This one is not understandable due to world conditions and is just a PITA.
Pretty snippy 1st paragraph for a reply to a post that wasn't even directed at you, but I'll blow it off (this time).

Why would Ford "issue a statement" when they already recommend not charging on DCFC above 80%? And why are you convinced it won't improve in the real production cars? We don't know yet.
 

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Why do you think DCFC charging wouldn’t be needed above 80%? If someone is on a road trip, you may have very large gaps between DCFC chargers, particularly in the West. And if you’re on a road trip, you might be cruising between 70 and 80mph, so you are definitely not getting the EPA range, so it’s very much a situation where someone may want to charge up to 100%.

Maybe there is a good reason to limit it for battery preservation but I think they should still try to proportionately step it down so it doesn’t take forever to get to 100% on a L3 charger.
And in the states that don't allow per-kWh billing, at a per-minute rate the last 20% will cost more than the rest of the charge did. It's truly like nobody at Ford ever road tripped a BEV before they decided to neuter our charge rate at 80.00% on the dot. I really do wonder if Ford's charging people have taken BEVs across the Dakotas or Wyoming where chargers are so rare they need every single % to make the next one...
 
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That is such a head in the sand attitude. You’ll never DCFC charge above 80% until you need to do so. Then you’ll be stuck charging for an hour 10-80 and a second hour 80-90, and a third hour 90-100 unless Ford addresses this.

And if you truly believe you’ll never charge above 80% then stop commenting that L2 rates are inconsequential. This doesn’t concern you.
We're having a conversation here. He can talk about what he likes, even things that don't 'concern' him.
 

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Some are doable. Like it is fairly easy for me to get to Arches. And a couple of the hotels have destination chargers. Great Sand Dunes might be a bit trickier. Either way, it will make for an "experience" and a good video -- I hope! LOL
Three L2 chargers and great green chili in Alamosa.
 

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I couldn't find the article that is referenced in this video. This was my second choice.
This may help some of you new to EV's understand a cold-soaked battery and slow charging. It shouldn't be a problem after a couple of hours of freeway driving.
 



 









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