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Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test!

TFLtommy

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Oh man....I know this was not an apples to apples test, but wow.....I don’t feel good about the MME and the charging performance. Sucks, because it’s these little videos that make me second guess myself for a little while. I need Tommy to talk me off the ledge.
I would say it just comes down to your driving needs and charging situation. If you have regular access to a 240V plug (ie in a home garage) and you drive under 150-200 miles a day I’d suggest your probably fine! That, I would guess, represents many Mach E buyers.

Currently I wouldn’t feel comfortable road tripping many non Tesla EV’s because the CCS network has given me many challenges. But if you have access to an ICE car for those longer trips I’d also suggest you’re probably still a good contender for the Mustang.

I agree the fast charging speed and ease of use over my week was extremely frustrating. I don’t regularly DC charge though (unless I’m really pushing the car like during the review of the Mach e over the week). If I have to DC charge once every two weeks that would be a lot given my normal driving habits, but that’s because I have regular access to level 2 both at home and at work.
 

dbsb3233

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Oh man....I know this was not an apples to apples test, but wow.....I don’t feel good about the MME and the charging performance. Sucks, because it’s these little videos that make me second guess myself for a little while. I need Tommy to talk me off the ledge.
Let's see what the real production cars get. Preproduction tests are still a question mark as to how representative they'll be.

And arguably, the issues the video showed were more EA issues than MME. And of course, only for road trips if one is charging at home the vast majority of the time.
 

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I would say it just comes down to your driving needs and charging situation. If you have regular access to a 240V plug (ie in a home garage) and you drive under 150-200 miles a day I’d suggest your probably fine! That, I would guess, represents many Mach E buyers.

Currently I wouldn’t feel comfortable road tripping many non Tesla EV’s because the CCS network has given me many challenges. But if you have access to an ICE car for those longer trips I’d also suggest you’re probably still a good contender for the Mustang.

I agree the fast charging speed and ease of use over my week was extremely frustrating. I don’t regularly DC charge though (unless I’m really pushing the car like during the review of the Mach e over the week). If I have to DC charge once every two weeks that would be a lot given my normal driving habits, but that’s because I have regular access to level 2 both at home and at work.
Great video Tommy, thanks for all the content lately. I thought it was funny your dad gave the tesla the nod on the looks. I felt like he was gaming the scoring since he knew he needed one more point for the tie. Make sure he knows that the mache forum sees right through it! But for real, his input as the devils advocate is extremely valuable. We don't come here (entirely) to hear the mme get pumped full of compliments. I don't mind hearing critiques as long as they are thoughtful. Both models are high end, the differences are fairly minor in the grand scheme..... except that sound when the tesla trunk opens. I laugh every time how much it pisses off tesla owners.
 

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For me it's very unclear:
What kind of circumstances are involved for reaching/ not reaching 150kW charging level?
When having a SoC between 30% & 70% and f.e. 15 degrees Celsius
 

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For me it's very unclear:
What kind of circumstances are involved for reaching/ not reaching 150kW charging level?
When having a SoC between 30% & 70% and f.e. 15 degrees Celsius
You will only reach max charging speed when the batterypack is at temperature (>20 Celsius) AND you are below 15% state of charge, it will always slowly diminish after the start. (Values are estimates)
It is therefore more important what the average charging speed will be between say 10-80% and thake that for you charging time calculations.
So you will have different charging curves depending on several variables, pack temp, state of charge, outside temp.
 

Dan G

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Oh man....I know this was not an apples to apples test, but wow.....I don’t feel good about the MME and the charging performance. Sucks, because it’s these little videos that make me second guess myself for a little while. I need Tommy to talk me off the ledge.
If it's the performance you're worried about; that's fast charging on a cold battery. I know they drove far, but unless they were tearing it, those batteries on both cars are going to be cold. You can see it in the MY, too. Charging for more than 8 minutes would have let the battery warm up and reach higher speeds. But charging in cold temperatures is going to be slower. Which is why Tesla preconditions their batteries on the way to superchargers.

I know they regenerated down the mountain, but I still don't think that 8 mile stretch would have sufficiently warmed up a battery in those cold temperatures.

Every time these guys have issues with EA, I'm baffled. I never have these issues, but I have noticed they don't use the app. You can start charging (I know MME has plug and charge now) but more importantly, you can see what chargers are offline or unavailable! That way you don't pull up to a charger that has an error in it. That doesn't necessarily apply to this video, but in general I always use the app. Always get a charge and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to move my car to another stall.

Oh, and as far as 15 minutes on EVGo, most of their chargers around me are rated at 100 amps. Meaning, even though they advertise 50kw charging speeds, you'd be lucky to be getting 40kw out of them. But I'm not sure what the station Tommy was using was rated at.

Edited to add, fell in love with TFL for their Model 3 series, thanks for the great content!
 

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If it's the performance you're worried about; that's fast charging on a cold battery. I know they drove far, but unless they were tearing it, those batteries on both cars are going to be cold. You can see it in the MY, too. Charging for more than 8 minutes would have let the battery warm up and reach higher speeds. But charging in cold temperatures is going to be slower. Which is why Tesla preconditions their batteries on the way to superchargers.

I know they regenerated down the mountain, but I still don't think that 8 mile stretch would have sufficiently warmed up a battery in those cold temperatures.

Every time these guys have issues with EA, I'm baffled. I never have these issues, but I have noticed they don't use the app. You can start charging (I know MME has plug and charge now) but more importantly, you can see what chargers are offline or unavailable! That way you don't pull up to a charger that has an error in it. That doesn't necessarily apply to this video, but in general I always use the app. Always get a charge and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to move my car to another stall.

Oh, and as far as 15 minutes on EVGo, most of their chargers around me are rated at 100 amps. Meaning, even though they advertise 50kw charging speeds, you'd be lucky to be getting 40kw out of them. But I'm not sure what the station Tommy was using was rated at.

Edited to add, fell in love with TFL for their Model 3 series, thanks for the great content!
Yeah, having done several 600+ mile road trips on CCS vehicles, the app is definitely the way to go. Even in the last 18 months the EA reliability has greatly improved, though I still often experience issues like @TFLtommy did here with EA charger-related failed charge sessions. I expect that P&C will be as reliable as the app but am not sure. Tommy, is that working in the car you've got? It requires both the car and the stations to be updated so it may work in some locations or could even be the cause of some chargers in this location not working the first time if you're trying to let P&C handle it. Not sure if you also tried authenticating with the app at those first two stations or just moved on until the third one worked?

At any rate, these are issues that simply do not exist at this point in the Supercharger network and are bugs in the overall system that need to be worked out and should not be tolerated by EA or Ford. In my experience, EA has been pretty responsive to feedback and they do watch Plugshare ratings and comments quite closely so it's worth dropping a comment there even if you don't end up calling the help line (which also logs an issue for them to follow up). EA help is somewhat limited in what they can do, but they are indeed helpful and simply rebooting the EA stations has resolved all issues the last couple times I've had to phone them.
 

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If it's the performance you're worried about; that's fast charging on a cold battery. I know they drove far, but unless they were tearing it, those batteries on both cars are going to be cold. You can see it in the MY, too. Charging for more than 8 minutes would have let the battery warm up and reach higher speeds. But charging in cold temperatures is going to be slower. Which is why Tesla preconditions their batteries on the way to superchargers.

I know they regenerated down the mountain, but I still don't think that 8 mile stretch would have sufficiently warmed up a battery in those cold temperatures.

Every time these guys have issues with EA, I'm baffled. I never have these issues, but I have noticed they don't use the app. You can start charging (I know MME has plug and charge now) but more importantly, you can see what chargers are offline or unavailable! That way you don't pull up to a charger that has an error in it. That doesn't necessarily apply to this video, but in general I always use the app. Always get a charge and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to move my car to another stall.

Oh, and as far as 15 minutes on EVGo, most of their chargers around me are rated at 100 amps. Meaning, even though they advertise 50kw charging speeds, you'd be lucky to be getting 40kw out of them. But I'm not sure what the station Tommy was using was rated at.

Edited to add, fell in love with TFL for their Model 3 series, thanks for the great content!
Thanks Dan! This really helped put things into perspective. I feel better now. Coupled with Tommy's remarks, I think I'll be ok. I'll rarely take long road trips in the MME that will require DCFC. 99% of my charging will be at home and work (free). Also, I guess I could give a crap about 0-60 speeds. Anything will be faster than my existing 4-cyl Accord, so I'll be fine.
 

jhalkias

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on my commute to work it is not uncommon for traffic to go 75-80 mph .
Me too. My commute is about 45 miles each way. I am planning on more road trips though, and hoping for the charging network to get caught up both in location and reliability. Tesla has a BIG head start with their network.
NOTE: Does anyone remember Woody Allen's movie, sleeper? Yes, those vehicles, that's what the Telsa vehicles always remind me of. Ha!
Man, that made me laugh . . . but I found this spy shot of the new Model X refresh . . .
Screen Shot 2021-01-07 at 7.35.05 AM.png

And @TFLtommy , great video, and looking for more good content and comparisons. Maybe you and @OutofSpecKyle should do some collaboration now that he is in Colorado too.
 

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Thanks Dan! This really helped put things into perspective. I feel better now. Coupled with Tommy's remarks, I think I'll be ok. I'll rarely take long road trips in the MME that will require DCFC. 99% of my charging will be at home and work (free). Also, I guess I could give a crap about 0-60 speeds. Anything will be faster than my existing 4-cyl Accord, so I'll be fine.
"Also, I guess I could give a crap about 0-60 speeds" hahahha

that's my thoughts exactly, I have one toddler, a baby, a dog and wife - so I'm not looking for sub 4 second 0-60's

I want a stylish electric car (and there's no alternatives in my opinion), doesn't handle like a boat, has reasonable performance and can fit the family

Fart noises and Plaid speed can be left to those that need it (whenever that is)
 

DaveRuns

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"Also, I guess I could give a crap about 0-60 speeds" hahahha

that's my thoughts exactly, I have one toddler, a baby, a dog and wife - so I'm not looking for sub 4 second 0-60's

I want a stylish electric car (and there's no alternatives in my opinion), doesn't handle like a boat, has reasonable performance and can fit the family

Fart noises and Plaid speed can be left to those that need it (whenever that is)
Amen Brother!
 

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Me too. My commute is about 45 miles each way. I am planning on more road trips though, and hoping for the charging network to get caught up both in location and reliability. Tesla has a BIG head start with their network.
I have a similar 50 mile one-way commute (mostly all rural highway, so it's really not too bad).

We've just decided to make a beach trip this summer, so I've been looking into taking the Mach-E on it's first long trip. Really hoping we see better charging results once customers start getting theirs and doing more testing. Looks like the Myrtle Beach/North Myrtle area has little in the way of charging options. I think I'll have to charge as much as possible at the nearest EA station on my way down to last through the week. Hoping that hard cut to charging at 80% is sorted out....
 

jhalkias

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I have a similar 50 mile one-way commute (mostly all rural highway, so it's really not too bad).

We've just decided to make a beach trip this summer, so I've been looking into taking the Mach-E on it's first long trip. Really hoping we see better charging results once customers start getting theirs and doing more testing. Looks like the Myrtle Beach/North Myrtle area has little in the way of charging options. I think I'll have to charge as much as possible at the nearest EA station on my way down to last through the week. Hoping that hard cut to charging at 80% is sorted out....
We visit family in the Williamsburg/Norfolk area frequently. My problem is still WV. I HATE going the route from OH through PA, but I may have to until EA puts a charger or two in the WV charging desert. I have written to them twice about it. I77 and the WV Turnpike is a MAJOR North/South route from this part of the country to get South and then head East to the beaches, etc. The Tamarack rest area in Beckley would be ideal for a charging stop. Outside of that, you have to travel from Cambridge OH all the way to Wyethville VA to find a charger. 262 miles. Who wants to try that range in even an EX Mach E through the mountains?
 



 









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