Charging on Dryer Outlet

[LinkRS]

The advice posted does *NOT* contradict what's on the website, in my opinion. The website is just a little.... amibiguous? Or .... wrong?

"Plug into any 240V", the website says. Not true --- plug into any 240V you*can* plug into. The Ford charger supports only NEMA 14-50. A 14-50 has to be fused to 50A (and would be better installed as 60A because it could be a continuous load but in either case the 42A charger is safe).

If you get an adapter to a 30A plug, put their 42A charger on a 30A circuit... You'll have a bad time. The breaker should blow. You shouldn't get a fire, because that's what breakers do, but if your breaker malfunctions, then you probably will get some very bad juju (melted wires and shit smoking if not catching fire). As they say, "not recommended". In any case, it won't / shouldn't work - it should trip breakers.

If you're going to use adapters, you really need to know what you're up to. All these plug formats exist for a reason, and an adapter circumvents the physical safety mechanism, which requires you to use the safety mechanism called your brain --- something designers consider a terrible, terrible idea.

You almost certainly need a charger that supports setting the Amperage. I've been looking for one, myself, because if my mobile charger is my "last resort", then I want to be able to set it to a number of values.... Who knows if I'm at my friend's house and they say "wellll..... I know it's a 50A plug but my shady cousin put in low grade wiring...."

But I haven't found a charger that goes all the way from 16A to 42A and is portable enough to replace the Ford unit in the space under the floor in the car.

Looking for recommendations; I haven't searched the last 6 months.

[ I might even say 50A is not unreasonable.... But the cases where 50A are safe is super rare.... SUPER RARE.... 42A would be fine with me ]

Thanks @bbulkow! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. So I take this to mean that a nema 14-50 expects a 50 amp circuit, and why it didn’t fit my dryer plug. So glad I didn’t try it, I just used 110 until I had my 48 amp L2 evse hard-wired to a 60 amp circuit.

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[ocdxfv]

I’ve been successfully charging on a dryer outlet since I bought my first EV in 2013. I charge pretty much every night and I don’t recall ever waking up to a car that was not fully charged. All that’s needed is an EVSE that can be set to 24 amps max continuous (not the Ford unit). Currently I’m very pleased with my hard wired Tesla Wall Connector.

 

[65MustangBoy]

Thanks @bbulkow! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. So I take this to mean that a nema 14-50 expects a 50 amp circuit, and why it didn’t fit my dryer plug. So glad I didn’t try it, I just used 110 until I had my 48 amp L2 evse hard-wired to a 60 amp circuit.

I'm an EE and don't usually jump into these topics. However, the answer to your question is sort of... yes. A NEMA 14-50 is RATED up to 50 amps at 240V. So you also need 50-amp capable wiring from the outlet to the 50-amp circuit breaker in your panel. I hope that makes sense. You should NOT connect a NEMA 14-50 to wiring that is only capable of handling 30 amps. And you certainly CANNOT just swap out a 30-amp breaker with a 50-amp breaker and leave your 30-amp cabling in-between. The wire will get HOT. To be clear the scenario I just described is a NEMA 14-50 with 30 amp wiring to a 50-amp breaker. (BIG NO-NO).

This is why there are different configurations of 240V outlets and plugs. Just because they are 240V capable, you CANNOT ignore the amp carrying capability all the way from the breaker panel, the breaker, the wiring, and the outlet. One of the primary benefits of 240 circuitry is the additional amp carrying capability it has.

My last point is the topic of "continuous use." To avoid a possible fire in the future I always design for worse case. That means I assume "continuous use" whether I use it continuously or not. For continuous use you want to only run at 80% of what the circuit is actually capable of. That being said... That means if you run a 60amp breaker, 60 amp carrying wiring, to a 60 amp termination. I used the word termination as this is the way many "hard wired" ESVE's are used. There is no outlet/plug. They are hardwired in. So for a 60 amp, hardwired ESVE I still would only ever run it at 48 amps (80% * 60 amps).

For your 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet/plug combination I would still limit the EVSE to 40 amps (80% x 50amps).

I hope this helps.

 

[21st Century Pony]

I'm an EE and don't usually jump into these topics. However, the answer to your question is sort of... yes. A NEMA 14-50 is RATED up to 50 amps at 240V. So you also need 50-amp capable wiring from the outlet to the 50-amp circuit breaker in your panel. I hope that makes sense. You should NOT connect a NEMA 14-50 to wiring that is only capable of handling 30 amps. And you certainly CANNOT just swap out a 30-amp breaker with a 50-amp breaker and leave your 30-amp cabling in-between. The wire will get HOT. To be clear the scenario I just described is a NEMA 14-50 with 30 amp wiring to a 50-amp breaker. (BIG NO-NO).

This is why there are different configurations of 240V outlets and plugs. Just because they are 240V capable, you CANNOT ignore the amp carrying capability all the way from the breaker panel, the breaker, the wiring, and the outlet. One of the primary benefits of 240 circuitry is the additional amp carrying capability it has.

My last point is the topic of "continuous use." To avoid a possible fire in the future I always design for worse case. That means I assume "continuous use" whether I use it continuously or not. For continuous use you want to only run at 80% of what the circuit is actually capable of. That being said... That means if you run a 60amp breaker, 60 amp carrying wiring, to a 60 amp termination. I used the word termination as this is the way many "hard wired" ESVE's are used. There is no outlet/plug. They are hardwired in. So for a 60 amp, hardwired ESVE I still would only ever run it at 48 amps (80% * 60 amps).

For your 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet/plug combination I would still limit the EVSE to 40 amps (80% x 50amps).

I hope this helps.

^^ This^^ is a thorough reply and great advice.

 

[WR221]

My Grizzl-E charger has dip switches inside the unit to reduce the power from 40A to 32A, 24A or 16A. You could set it low and it would not be possible to go higher by mistake.

 

[MillerPaints]

I use a Dryer outlet to charge but I got a SplitVolt switch and a SplitVolt charger for 10-30 which is the type of dryer outlet I have. You cannot use a 14-50 charger on a 10-30 or 14-30 outlet since those are 30 amp max and the 14-50 is a 50 amp outlet but requires the correct wire cable to the outlet to withstand the higher current level. The Ford charger cannot be dropped to the lower current. My SplitVolt charger draws just under 24 amps which is about the most you would want on a 30 amp circuit at continuous use. The SplitVolt switch will switch between the dryer and the charger when the dryer is started. I have not done it since I make sure not to use the dryer when the car is plugged in. Otherwise the dryer seems to work like it always has.

WE do the same thing....my husband did a lot of research before we bought the car. We have a ranch style house and our electrical panel is on one end and the garage on the other so it was going to be ridiculously expensive to run another 220 line. We did have an electrician come out to inspect our dryer plug and make sure it had the proper grounding, etc. We purchased the Split Volt switch and charger and have not had any issues.

 

[Fins160]

A second (or third or fourth) recommendation for the Splitvolt system. It's specifically designed for your scenario, and includes a local circuit breaker for an additional level of safety. In my experience, 24A is plenty for charging.

 

[Adventureboy]

A 14-50 has to be fused to 50A (and would be better installed as 60A because it could be a continuous load but in either case the 42A charger is safe)

A NEMA 14-50 can ONLY be connected to a 50A breaker to be compliant. This will allow a continuous 40amp load (80%). Any higher loads like continuous 42A should kick out the 50Amp breaker.

 

[Maquis]

Any higher loads like continuous 42A should kick out the 50Amp breaker.

No it won’t. Breakers are designed to carry their rated load.

 

[Adventureboy]

No it won’t. Breakers are designed to carry their rated load.

You can push it if you like - that is your choice. 80% capacity (40amp) is the design and code limit for a 50amp breaker. Your breaker may carry it, but it will heat up (try a laser thermometer on it or simply touch it if you are drawing 48amps for a few hours on a 50 amp breaker).

 

[ChehRob]

Likely most of us should have an electrician evaluate existing wiring, breaker, breaker box and outlet. Any one of them can be a point of weakness, especially in wiring that was done decades ago.

 

[mateo]

Likely most of us should have an electrician evaluate existing wiring, breaker, breaker box and outlet. Any one of them can be a point of weakness, especially in wiring that was done decades ago.

Agreed, although unfortunately a lot of that can be hidden behind walls. The horrors I've found when remodeling houses (all pre-1960s builds) I've lived at would give me pause to use existing wiring for EV charging. I ran brand new wiring for my charger.

 

[Maquis]

You can push it if you like - that is your choice. 80% capacity (40amp) is the design and code limit for a 50amp breaker. Your breaker may carry it, but it will heat up (try a laser thermometer on it or simply touch it if you are drawing 48amps for a few hours on a 50 amp breaker).

I didn’t say anything like that. I simply conveyed how breakers work.

 

[AKgrampy]

You just paid $45 - $65k on a new car. Do not cut corners on electrical. Number one issue is be safe. EV charging is a continuous high load which is different than most home loads. No need to go to the max (but I would if practical) but certainly ensure that what you do go with is safe and is not pushing the limits!

 

[goodguy]

Opinions vary... but many sources say you can use the stock provided cord with a 40 amp breaker and a NEMA 14-50 outlet that is signed to only allow 32 amp continuous max (40 max) and 8 AWG wire (as short as possible). The math works But I am sure others will say that the stock cord should not be used and the Nema 14-50 MUST be 50 amp. This is really no different than allow a 50 amp breaker to allow a 40 amps continuous load. Other than the fact that the Nema 14-50 outlet is rated at 50 amps, but you have limited it to 40 max. Thus the sign. Or better yet remove the outlet before selling the house. Again. not an electrician. Also i am talking about a new breaker.... not the dryer question. And why would you do this.... to save money. 8 AWG is cheaper than 6AWG.

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