Charging options with a 10-30A dryer outlet

oadesign

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…and remember, it’s not just the outlet. You have to have the correct wiring gauge to support a higher draw outlet.
…and if you have a long cable run, upping the gauge will prevent voltage drop, too.
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tuminatr

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Yes I have seen that from other forums as well. I was previously in mechanical construction and moderate a forum for AI based home electrical monitors so I know electrical systems fairly well. I'm skeptical of the "cheaper" 14-50 comments. There's some truth to the pins that hold the plug in place on cheaper devices, but it would require unplugging and plugging back in constantly, which normally isn't the case. A UL Rated NEMA 14-50 is approved for 50 amps regardless of the cost of the device. In the Taycan forum (PSA) they also say that the screw most likely came loose. The screws, not only have to be on metal, but they have a torque spec that should be met with a torque wrench, which unfortunately is rarely done by electricians. That being said, I replaced mine with a Hubbell as well and I did it myself with a torque wrench, because even the Hubbell's have a torque spec.

"Using a 3/16 inch Allen Wrench, tighten terminal screws to 75 lb-in (8.5 N•m)."

In my case it was clearly clamping on the insulation (see image). The clamp must be on metal, not on insulation. As I said previously, this can cause the wire to arc inside of the receptacle which is the same affect that can occur if the pins on the inside of the outlet stop "gripping" or, as said, the screws loosen.

Again, my point here is just get it done right. If something does happen with an adapter or "jerry-rigged" solution you'll have an uphill battle with your insurance.

PXL_20210410_222119720.jpg
I have had a few different installs with the cheaper 14-50 the difference is the duty cycle. Plugs wear out after a certain amount of use if you have ever stayed at a hotel where your plug is extremely loose these plugs have exceeded their duty cycle and are worn out, and a dangerous fire hazard.

A best practice would be to own a home charger and own a portable charger. Seeing as the car comes with a portable charger it's fairly simple.

I think the best install is to eliminate the plug and hardwire the EVSE. EVSE's over 40a are required to be hardwired.

I have seen many pictures of failed / improper install and it's tough to pinpoint what went wrong. I think if a professional election did the install issues are rare.
 

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Also, I work from home and don't drive that much, so my charging requirements are not as stringent as others might be
Consider how many miles driven per week on average ... You might be able to use the 120V mode of the mobile charger without problems?

It needs to be plugged into an outlet that isn't being shared with any other significant loads.

check if you qualify for the 2021 federal tax credit for EV charging station purchase and installation, which can reduce the overall cost https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/10513
Unfortunately, as the renter he likely cannot claim this home improvement credit.
 

DevSecOps

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I have had a few different installs with the cheaper 14-50 the difference is the duty cycle. Plugs wear out after a certain amount of use
Ummm... that's exactly what I said and you quoted me on saying it... "There's some truth to the pins that hold the plug in place on cheaper devices, but it would require unplugging and plugging back in constantly, which normally isn't the case." The reason it's a fire hazard is because the internal spring'd pins fail to make a good connection which causes arcing. Arcing = heat, heat = fire.

I have seen many pictures of failed / improper install and it's tough to pinpoint what went wrong.
I would respectfully disagree, when electrical failures happen it's normally very easy to see what went wrong. Electrical connections are very simple and the concept of electricity is very simple. The problem arises when people cut corners, and/or attempt to do something they are unskilled or uneducated at.
 

tuminatr

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Ummm... that's exactly what I said and you quoted me on saying it... "There's some truth to the pins that hold the plug in place on cheaper devices, but it would require unplugging and plugging back in constantly, which normally isn't the case." The reason it's a fire hazard is because the internal spring'd pins fail to make a good connection which causes arcing. Arcing = heat, heat = fire.
Yes, but I wanted to make it extra clear, maybe that was not needed.
I think you and I agree you can use the cheaper ones if you don't unplug and plugin all the time.
I would respectfully disagree, when electrical failures happen it's normally very easy to see what went wrong. Electrical connections are very simple and the concept of electricity is very simple. The problem arises when people cut corners, and/or attempt to do something they are unskilled or uneducated at.
Well maybe if you are there, the photos certainly make it hard to tell

Also, I have done a lot of wiring in my home I wanted to point out that it's not hard to do it right but it's really easy to do it wrong. Don't do anything unless you are 100% certain you know what you're doing and pull a permit and have it inspected. An insurance company can not argue with a job that passed inspection
 
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DevSecOps

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Well maybe if you are there, the photos certainly make it hard to tell
Maybe you missed my follow up post where you can clearly see the wires were clamped on the insulation. Here's the post for your reference: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-with-a-10-30a-dryer-outlet.10575/post-264798

The round circular marks on the one hot leg and the neutral are clearly visible. This is from the terminal screws in the plug that should have been on bare metal. While it's not visible on the other hot leg because it's burnt, one can rationalize a fairly certain conclusion.

I will agree with you that hard wiring is a better solution. Some of the more modern and sophisticated plugin chargers actually have heat monitoring built into the plug and will cancel the charge if the plug exceeds that limit. I have a Charpoint Flex which doesn't have that and if it did would have cut off before the point of melting/fire. I will say however that Chargepoint replaced the charger for free after this event.

An insurance company can not argue with a job that passed inspection
I can tell you don't live in California ? ... our permits actually state on them that:

"I, as an Owner-Builder, may be held liable and subject to serious financial risk for any injuries sustained by an unlicensed person and his or her employees while working on my property. My homeowner's insurance may not provide coverage for those injuries. I am willfully acting as an Owner-Builder and am aware of the limits of my insurance coverage for injuries to workers on my property."

"I understand as an Owner-Builder if I sell the property for which this permit is issued, I may be held liable for any financial or personal injuries sustained by any subsequent owner(s) that result from any latent construction defects in the workmanship or materials."

A permit and inspection in California is worthless ... but I would never discourage anyone from obeying the law :rolleyes:
 
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tuminatr

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Yep, I usually stay away from the electrical posts. Glad you caught it before you had a serious problem. Curiosity question does your 50a circuit have a GFI. I was required to have a GFI breaker to pass inspection in MN.
 

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Just took delivery of my Premium AWD ER after a long 7 1/2 month wait (yay!).

I have a 10-30 dryer outlet I was hoping to be able to use. After doing some research, I found that there are inexpensive 10-30R to 14-50P adapters available, but the Ford mobile charger draws 32A and can't be used with these. Tesla's allow the amp draw to be varied allowing use of these adapters; perhaps Ford will do that at some point in the future.

I apparently have two options for level 2 charging:

• install a 14-50 outlet for $600

• buy a 3rd party charger such as the Splitvolt 24A NEMA 10-30 EV Charger for $300 (see below)

Just wondering if anyone's tried a charger like that, and what the charging speed would be compared with the Ford mobile charger.

https://www.amazon.com/Splitvolt-Portable-Compatible-Electric-Including/dp/B08GP81NY1/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=24A+EVSE&qid=1634756439&qsid=131-4563489-4964960&sr=8-5&sres=B08GP81NY1,B07JB9FLBK,B08PDRTX5X,B07H9H7W2N,B07JNMZ13P,B07TF8G71X,B0843K8Z9K,B07BKMX3NL,B07WXZDHGV,B08HHBDQ88,B07ZL41687,B07W8ZPZ24,B07VLFV715,B08H3PPJXY,B07THBGGMG,B08L76J1WB,B08ZHMLP8B,B07HH4LJD2,B07P9C963L,B097XMSZP6&th=1
Although I do have a dedicated 14-50 outlet installed, I chose to purchase the Splitvolt 14-50 (portable) charger over more established brands like the Grizzl-e and JuiceBox (which my girlfriend owns) because of the low price point.

I was impressed by the customer support provided by this small company. Emailed inquiries before purchase were replied to by the CEO within hours on a weekend, with follow-up by another team member on Monday.

Although I can't speak for the charging speed provided by their 10-30 with their signature product, I can tell you that the 40amp Splitvolt charger is of course faster than the 32amp Ford charger, and pretty much to the degree you'd expect.

Although we will likely mount her JuiceBox permanently in our new residence and consign my Splitvolt to backup use, it has inexpensively done everything asked of it for 10+ months.

I know this doesn't answer your question exactly, but I hope it gives you some input as to another customer's real-world experiences with the company in question. Good luck!
 

DevSecOps

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Yep, I usually stay away from the electrical posts. Glad you caught it before you had a serious problem. Curiosity question does your 50a circuit have a GFI. I was required to have a GFI breaker to pass inspection in MN.
So while it's not really important and both GFI and GFCI are commonly interchanged. GFCI is normally used when it's at a circuit level, hence the C, whereas GFI is at a local level, like next to your bathroom sink.

In California GFCI's aren't required however, GFI protected outlets are required in a number of different locations.

Don't let a GFCI breaker make you think it's all fine and dandy. GFCI trips on the difference in amperage returning to the panel. This only happens in instances of "shock" or if overloaded and doesn't help in instances of arcing. The reason for the requirement of GFCI on EV Chargers in some jurisdictions is for the safety of life, not necessarily the safety of property.

If you want to protect against arcing the correct breaker would be a AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter). Thanks to advancements there's even dual GFCI/AFCI breakers. Here's a video on AFCI's if you're interested.
 
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JSeis

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I swapped out a 30 amp breaker on a dryer circuit for a 40 amp breaker. Easy to do. The wire was sized accordingly and can easily handle 32 amps but a 30 amp breaker will eventually trip pulling 32 amps, particularly if it’s old.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Charging options with a 10-30A dryer outlet 217EA9E9-F5A2-483C-A0CA-9DCC9B6C3240



.
 
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DevSecOps

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I swapped out a 30 amp breaker on a dryer circuit for a 40 amp breaker. Easy to do. The wire was sized accordingly
If it's aluminum wire then it's probably not sized correctly anymore. Aluminum has to be "up-sized" and you risk causing a fire if you did that. Since there's insufficient information in your post I can't assume, but please be aware of that.

If you have copper you could get away with 8 AWG, but if it's aluminum you would need 6 AWG so long as the run is under 125'.
 

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If it's aluminum wire then it's probably not sized correctly anymore. Aluminum has to be "up-sized" and you risk causing a fire if you did that. Since there's insufficient information in your post I can't assume, but please be aware of that.

If you have copper you could get away with 8 AWG, but if it's aluminum you would need 6 AWG so long as the run is under 125'.
8 AWG copper and 25’. But I agree, don’t mess with undersized wire/breakers.
 
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Riotous

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I spoke with an electrician this morning, this was exactly his recommendation (upgrade to a 40amp breaker). I need to take the plug out and check the wire now...
 
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Bonehead

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I spoke with an electrician this morning, this was exactly his recommendation (upgrade to a 40amp breaker). I need to take the plug out and check the wire now...
Pardon if this shows my lack of electrical smarts - Don't we need 50amp to use the Ford mobile charger?

And if the amperage is higher than 30, can you still run the dryer off of it?
 

tuminatr

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Pardon if this shows my lack of electrical smarts - Don't we need 50amp to use the Ford mobile charger?

And if the amperage is higher than 30, can you still run the dryer off of it?
Unfortunately it won't work, the Ford one does not offer adjustable amperage. The max you would want to use on a 30a circuit is 24a
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