Customer Complains of Mach-E ADM on Twitter, Ford's Mike Levine Has ADM Removed

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

There's two different things that can be (and are) both true.

The first is that the concept of a dealer between you and the manufacturer is not that crazy. Every time you go to a grocery store or big box store, you're going to a dealer, just not of cars, but of eggs or hammers or whatever. From a consumer's viewpoint, the standard retail model in fact is the car dealer model for most goods purchased by most people. The Tesla model is a bit weird; yes, sometimes, you buy something like a cell phone direct from Samsung or whatever but generally you're going through a middleman. That middleman is then also someone to complain to and return to and get help at, though.

The second is that car dealers are weird, annoying resellers. Sure, when you buy from Best Buy you get the soft "extended warranty" push, but not much. Generally the price is the price, and you don't mess with that. But consumers (in the US) are conditioned to "negotiate" with car dealers, and not with the grocery store. That plus the "finance" layer - at Best Buy, you use your credit card and you've already "negotiated" by getting that specific card - make car dealers weird. And, if we're being honest with ourselves, consumers are part of the problem here. Saturn famously was "fixed price" at the start, CarMax is "fixed price," and yet some consumers are like "yeah but it's not really fixed right, that's just for the suckers; let's talk." Some of this is because of the cost of the product - a car is a lot more money than a refrigerator so we "need" room to negotiate. In the Tesla model, there's no negotiation at all, no finance manager add-on pressure, none of that. So it's actually a lot more like "traditional" retail in that sense.

So, car dealers have a place still, even in 2021, but it's not the traditional place. They need to adapt. Tesla is feeling that pressure already because they just don't have enough Service Centers and people in a lot of places and can't come close to a Ford or GM or Honda or whatever on that point - and that's because dealers exist. And, if dealers realize that, and stop screwing around on the purchase side, they will survive. It's going to be a long battle though, and one that will take consumers to cooperate.

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[FairfieldCT]

I think it is quite nice that Ford is paying attention and do the right thing by their customers, but the model nevertheless is still archaic!

My FE (Mach Drop) was nowhere, with an ETA of 3/1 . All dealer can say is that it is in transit!!! On all of this only helpful folks (other than this forum - thanks everyone!) have been Ford Marketing department, who were able to find out there was stop ship (whatever is the term) on my car and no new ETA...

Do I need to tweet this to get any attention!!!

I know this is not dealer's fault but if I am the one who have the chase where the car is what are they for...

Icing on the cake... I mentioned this was a Mach Drop, right? The original order wasn't adjusted, instead the dealer created a second order. My original Premium arrived first, they called me to ask if I didn't change my mind (nice of them). Since my FE was a week behind, I said no, I can wait... Little did I know that it was not a week later... There is no date. Had I know that I would have taken the premium...

 

[Krimpy]

I didn't mean to come of snooty. "These people" makes me sound like a jerk. This may end up an expensive lesson, but hopefully you'll learn from this not to trust dealers without doing the research. Whether you are ordering the car or buying of the lot, look into multiple dealers, and if possible pit them against each other. And always be prepared to walk away. Fortunately, with forums like this one and many other resources you don't have to let sleazy dealers take advantage of you.

Right on! I get it. Much appreciated. So the funny thing is the dealer up the road has the exact car I ordered on the lot!! I called and asked if i can buy it and they can not sell it until it get 6k miles on it as they need to use it as a loaner. But then he said they will probably sell it for discount! That is the kind of dealer I want to work with.

 

[Thopter]

I brought this up when I test drove an E4x today. My sales dude, and a few others that were listening to my opinions on the car, were horrified.

No ADM on Mach E’s! At least 3 of them, and the receptionist too. Sounded like it had been drilled into them. Good on mgmnt.

Think I helped a sales guy sell one too. Told him I wanted a cut.

 

[Brademcee]

There's two different things that can be (and are) both true.

The first is that the concept of a dealer between you and the manufacturer is not that crazy. Every time you go to a grocery store or big box store, you're going to a dealer, just not of cars, but of eggs or hammers or whatever. From a consumer's viewpoint, the standard retail model in fact is the car dealer model for most goods purchased by most people. The Tesla model is a bit weird; yes, sometimes, you buy something like a cell phone direct from Samsung or whatever but generally you're going through a middleman. That middleman is then also someone to complain to and return to and get help at, though.

The second is that car dealers are weird, annoying resellers. Sure, when you buy from Best Buy you get the soft "extended warranty" push, but not much. Generally the price is the price, and you don't mess with that. But consumers (in the US) are conditioned to "negotiate" with car dealers, and not with the grocery store. That plus the "finance" layer - at Best Buy, you use your credit card and you've already "negotiated" by getting that specific card - make car dealers weird. And, if we're being honest with ourselves, consumers are part of the problem here. Saturn famously was "fixed price" at the start, CarMax is "fixed price," and yet some consumers are like "yeah but it's not really fixed right, that's just for the suckers; let's talk." Some of this is because of the cost of the product - a car is a lot more money than a refrigerator so we "need" room to negotiate. In the Tesla model, there's no negotiation at all, no finance manager add-on pressure, none of that. So it's actually a lot more like "traditional" retail in that sense.

So, car dealers have a place still, even in 2021, but it's not the traditional place. They need to adapt. Tesla is feeling that pressure already because they just don't have enough Service Centers and people in a lot of places and can't come close to a Ford or GM or Honda or whatever on that point - and that's because dealers exist. And, if dealers realize that, and stop screwing around on the purchase side, they will survive. It's going to be a long battle though, and one that will take consumers to cooperate.

Great post but the one factor that is changing is that many people are buying more goods online. In your example, I no longer need to go into Best Buy, Target or even the grocery store. I can simply go online, pick what I want, pay for it and either have it delivered, available for curbside pick up or go into the store.

I have never been able to buy a car online through a dealership. The Internet sales from the dealerships is just a way to make you feel like you are online shopping but always ends with them telling you to come into the showroom. We should be able to buy online, apply for financing and choose how we want to pay for the car. We then go to the dealer to pick up the car and provide signatures. No sitting down with a finance manager, no sales person having to talk to their sales manager on a deal. Simple and efficient for everyone. If you want a test drive a vehicle, you can go into the dealership or sign up online.

Let’s be frank. Dealers don’t like this model because it makes buying a car a commodity and they will make less money because it’s now a level playing field. There is no finance manager trying to sell you extras you don’t need or suckering you into a bad finance plan. Most of us on this forum are educated car buyers. However most people are walking into a dealer unprepared or maybe just a bad negotiator. If dealers move to this new model it’s a level playing field. That is what the buyer or consumer is doing wrong. When we give into these antics, we are supporting no change. The more we buy or demand a different car purchasing experience, that is when dealers will need to adapt or go out of business. Tesla, Rivian and a bunch of other EV manufacturers are showing the consumer car market consumers do like an easy purchasing experience without the wheeling and dealing.

 

[JWPortland]

They can't terminate the franchise over that, what they can do is to reduce allocations of desirable vehicles to a particular dealer that is doing this. If we are seeing $10K on the Mach E, just imagine what they will try when the Raptor and Bronco are released. The problem is that Ford probably does not know about individual dealers doing this. Even if Ford does crack down, they will just do other things like applying a ceramic coat to the car, or PPF and charging a well above market price for that.
This is why i strongly believe that all of the legacy automakers will need to buy out all of their dealers at some point and have them all be company owned retail/service points. There is no effective way to compete with Tesla, Lucid, Rivian etc when you have to give up margin to dealerships and there is all sorts of nonsense going on at the dealership level.

Ford will need to alter contract terms with their dealers. Clearly, other franchises like MacDonalds have strict control over their 'dealers'. Ford can and should clamp down hard and be financially punitive to abusive dealers. Mach-e MSRP and Invoice are the same, so the dealer makes no money on these 'sales' (internet orders) unless Ford gives them 'holdbacks' which are at the discretion of Ford. The dealer network could be a plus versus Tesla and Lucid if the dealers are forced to provide customer service.

 

[benk016]

I’ll be going through this soon with my GT.

For those that have been through this already on the other trims, given the online ordering process, at what point does the dealer become involved where I’ll learn about any ADM, not accepting x-plan, adding non refundable deposits, any other dealership shenanigans, etc.

my 11/2019 reservation is going to be open for order next month.

This adjusted MSRP nonsense raised some questions. Any help is appreciated.

When you reserve or order, it tells you right then if there is any ADM. None of the dealers around here are Adding ADM to orders.

Now, if you are buying one off the lot and not ordering, you won't know that until you get there to negotiate. But if you ordered online, you were told the price up front and they can't add more to that after you placed the order.

 

[Franchise]

When you reserve or order, it tells you right then if there is any ADM. None of the dealers around here are Adding ADM to orders.

Now, if you are buying one off the lot and not ordering, you won't know that until you get there to negotiate. But if you ordered online, you were told the price up front and they can't add more to that after you placed the order.

Nice and thanks!

I gather that after that they’ll reach out and that’s when you have the chance to let them know about x plan? I test drove one Saturday and the GM was giving me the “if xplan is available” hedge - but I’m seeing that GT is on the xplan website.

 

[benk016]

Nice and thanks!

I gather that after that they’ll reach out and that’s when you have the chance to let them know about x plan? I test drove one Saturday and the GM was giving me the “if xplan is available” hedge - but I’m seeing that GT is on the xplan website.

They don't really have a way to mark if they accept x-plan or not, but you can just call the dealer and ask if they accept it. They either accept it for all vehicles, or don't accept it at all.

 

[eastern refugee]

Galpin Ford has 2 that the customers turned down. Both have an ADM of $5,000.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Galpin Ford has 2 that the customers turned down. Both have an ADM of $5,000.

Above at https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-mike-levine-has-adm-removed.4316/post-130456 I said consumers are part of the problem.

If someone buys one the $5K ADM cars, guess what? The dealer made $5K from the customer with the customers agreement. It wasn't even hidden or a weird finance office screw job.

Ford can't legally mandate dealer car prices any more than Samsung can mandate Best Buy prices. But they can control inventory and availability of hot cars while moving to a more traditional "pay what it says" model. (there are agreements around advertising and such but even that isn't really the price, it's the advertised price... Which gets us back to haggling...)

But it has to have the same rules for all dealers at once and consumers have to not screw around. Otherwise the honest dealers will lose because "Bob Jones Cars N Bacon gave me $1,000 off after I haggled and a pound of bacon to boot, so I bought the car from him."

 

[mdolan92869]

Above at https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-mike-levine-has-adm-removed.4316/post-130456 I said consumers are part of the problem.

If someone buys one the $5K ADM cars, guess what? The dealer made $5K from the customer with the customers agreement. It wasn't even hidden or a weird finance office screw job.

Ford can't legally mandate dealer car prices any more than Samsung can mandate Best Buy prices. But they can control inventory and availability of hot cars while moving to a more traditional "pay what it says" model. (there are agreements around advertising and such but even that isn't really the price, it's the advertised price... Which gets us back to haggling...)

But it has to have the same rules for all dealers at once and consumers have to not screw around. Otherwise the honest dealers will lose because "Bob Jones Cars N Bacon gave me $1,000 off after I haggled and a pound of bacon to boot, so I bought the car from him."

Mmmm, bacon ?

 

[mixduptransistor]

Ford can't legally mandate dealer car prices any more than Samsung can mandate Best Buy prices.

They can if they want to. Want proof? Look for an Apple reseller that sells things at a price other than Apple's MSRP or an approved discount

Violating Apple's MSRP is an instant ban situation. Ford can absolutely set whatever terms they want before shipping a car to a dealer. It may not be in their contracts today but franchise agreements are not perpetual

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

They can if they want to. Want proof? Look for an Apple reseller that sells things at a price other than Apple's MSRP or an approved discount

Violating Apple's MSRP is an instant ban situation. Ford can absolutely set whatever terms they want before shipping a car to a dealer. It may not be in their contracts today but franchise agreements are not perpetual

That's the inventory control option.

 

[scubauke]

Saw on ford dealer locator that the premium in star white with extended battery, rwd was available at Performance Ford in West Covina, CA at msrp. I called and they said it was available, but with $5000 adm. I asked if this was an ordered car that was declined and the gm said no, we ordered it for the dealership so we could mark it up. I asked if he knew that ford did not approve of this pricing strategy and he said yes , but did not care as it is just business and he is trying to make as much money as possible. He was also aware of the Illinois case but seemed not phased in anyway. I have reported it to ford motor company and they appeared to be concerned and stated that they would contact the dealership. We will see. I would now not purchase anything from this dealership ever. I have one on order from another dealership, but hoped to get one sooner if someone backed out of their order.
Ford needs to do a better job of controlling their greedy dealers and enforcing compliance

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