Danger in Repeatedly Charging to 100%

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Illinibird

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The rule of thumb is that Lithium batteries will lose life span and can possibly swell up if charged to 100%. Knowing that Ford went conservative and doesn't permit us to charge to 100%, they hold a lot in reserve. We can charge to "100%" of the non-reserved portion. On top of being conservative they took it one step further and said that best practice is to not charge past 90% unless you need that juice soon.

Remember, Ford warrantees the batteries for 8 years. They're doing what they think is best to not have to replace batteries under warranty. I believe they've gone ultra conservative to protect themselves.
And when I do charge to 100% that "juice" is used the next morning after an overnight charging.
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I charge to 100% always but only really charge up once, occasionally twice a week. Should not be an issue don't worry about it at all.

That said, try to charge at 32 amps L2, the car seems to strain a bit more at 40 amp for cooling. 32 amp will keep the wear tear bit lower. Also try to charge in cooler locations like enclosed garage. Avoid DCFC as much as feasible, if you need to charge DCFC occasionally don't worry about it. As other have said don't let it sit at 100% for more than 24 hours. Thats when degradation happens, long period at high charge or very low charge. esp. in higher 100f type heat.
 
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I charge to 100% always but only really charge up once, occasionally twice a week. Should not be an issue don't worry about it at all.

That said, try to charge at 32 amps L2, the car seems to strain a bit more at 40 amp for cooling. 32 amp will keep the wear tear bit lower. Also try to charge in cooler locations like enclosed garage. Avoid DCFC as much as feasible, if you need to charge DCFC occasionally don't worry about it. As other have said don't let it sit at 100% for more than 24 hours. Thats when degradation happens, long period at high charge or very low charge.
I charge with the Ford Mobile charger on a 50 amp 220 volt SEMA 14-50 outlet. I believe it charges at 32 amps and its in my garage at night so its cool when I go to 100% (its cool all the time). The next morning she takes the car and it immediately starts to discharge. It's all expressway driving at 70 - 75 MPH. She has a lead foot and usually pushes the speed limit by at least 5 MPH. This higher speed driving drains the battery faster too.
 

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As others have said, it’s the extended period of storage above 90% that is the life drgrader, as well as extended periods below 20%. Additionally, the rate of discharge at those extremes of SoC will degrade the battery more quickly. Above 90% and below 20% just drive judiciously, the. Go ahead and hammer it below 90%.
 

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I've read lots of different forums and the consensus is that charging to 100% daily isn't a big deal since we aren't actually able to access 100% of the battery.

Please stop the FUD about DCFC, it was a problem years ago, now with the current battery technology, you will be fine.

In europe, they are using Tesla Model S as taxis, you can't do level 2 charging on a fleet. They have to use the DCFC to keep their fleet moving. There are reports of a model S with 400km, no problems what so ever.

In NYC they are using model 3s as taxis now.(yellow cab co)

People use a lot of Chevy Bolts in Portland as Uber/Lift, 100% of the time DCFC. I spoke with a guy who does doordash in his bolt, 90K miles on it, he only uses DCFC. He has seen less than a 1% drop in capacity all 90k miles.

I use DCFC exclusively. It's almost never the super fast chargers (150KW+), I use the 50KW. Once you get to 90% it slows down to what a 220 charger would be charging at.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to keep your car for 20 years.

Drive it, enjoy it.
 


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Frequent DCFC sessions do much more battery degradation than charging at home to 100%. We usually charge once weekly to 100% and by the end of the week are down to about 30%. If I know we are going to be driving a little greater distance then we charge to 100%. Remember, regardless of what is recommended, you are never truly charging to 100% due to the non-usable buffer on the battery. If eight years from now our battery has 5-10% less range due to always charging to 100%....who really cares. It will be time to trade for a newer vehicle with the latest and greatest by then anyway. We have owned our Mach-E for over six months now and have NEVER done a DCFC session. We get about 310 miles of range in our AWD ER Premium and that usually meets our needs. IF we are going on extended trip, we are usually pulling the RV so would take the truck anyway.

Speaking of trucks, I wonder how you could DCFC a EV F-150 on a trip while pulling an RV. Those parking spaces at chargers will not hold a truck and a 30 foot RV. I would hate to have to un-hitch every time I needed to charge.
 
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I've read lots of different forums and the consensus is that charging to 100% daily isn't a big deal since we aren't actually able to access 100% of the battery.

Please stop the FUD about DCFC, it was a problem years ago, now with the current battery technology, you will be fine.

In europe, they are using Tesla Model S as taxis, you can't do level 2 charging on a fleet. They have to use the DCFC to keep their fleet moving. There are reports of a model S with 400km, no problems what so ever.

In NYC they are using model 3s as taxis now.(yellow cab co)

People use a lot of Chevy Bolts in Portland as Uber/Lift, 100% of the time DCFC. I spoke with a guy who does doordash in his bolt, 90K miles on it, he only uses DCFC. He has seen less than a 1% drop in capacity all 90k miles.

I use DCFC exclusively. It's almost never the super fast chargers (150KW+), I use the 50KW. Once you get to 90% it slows down to what a 220 charger would be charging at.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to keep your car for 20 years.

Drive it, enjoy it.
Thanks, I will enjoy it!
 
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Illinibird

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Frequent DCFC sessions do much more battery degradation than charging at home to 100%. We usually charge once weekly to 100% and by the end of the week are down to about 30%. If I know we are going to be driving a little greater distance then we charge to 100%. Remember, regardless of what is recommended, you are never truly charging to 100% due to the non-usable buffer on the battery. If eight years from now our battery has 5-10% less range due to always charging to 100%....who really cares. It will be time to trade for a newer vehicle with the latest and greatest by then anyway. We have owned our Mach-E for over six months now and have NEVER done a DCFC session. We get about 310 miles of range in our AWD ER Premium and that usually meets our needs. IF we are going on extended trip, we are usually pulling the RV so would take the truck anyway.

Speaking of trucks, I wonder how you could DCFC a EV F-150 on a trip while pulling an RV. Those parking spaces at chargers will not hold a truck and a 30 foot RV. I would hate to have to un-hitch every time I needed to charge.
Seems like there is disagreement about frequent DCFC. I’m going to use it sparingly when I really need to charge on the road. 99% if my charging will be L2 AC charging at home with my Ford Mobile Charger at 32 amps.
 

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And when I do charge to 100% that "juice" is used the next morning after an overnight charging.
That's fine.

I normally charge to 80% daily. If I know I'm going on a trip I'll set the nightly charge to 90% which starts at 11 PM and finishes around midnight to 12:30 am. Then in the morning about two hours before I leave I click 'Charge to 100%' in FordPass. I know it takes 1:30 to 1:45 hours to charge that last 10% from 90 to 100% on my extended range battery on my 40 amp continuous charger (NEMA 14-50 plug in on 50 amp breaker).
 
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That's fine.

I normally charge to 80% daily. If I know I'm going on a trip I'll set the nightly charge to 90% which starts at 11 PM and finishes around midnight to 12:30 am. Then in the morning about two hours before I leave I click 'Charge to 100%' in FordPass. I know it takes 1:30 to 1:45 hours to charge that last 10% from 90 to 100% on my extended range battery on my 40 amp continuous charger (NEMA 14-50 plug in on 50 amp breaker).
Will charging that last 10% in the morning make that much difference in battery degradation? My car probably sits at most a few hours at 100%.
 

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Will charging that last 10% in the morning make that much difference in battery degradation? My car probably sits at most a few hours at 100%.
Couple hours is fine, just try to avoid sitting overnight at 100%.

With frequent 100% charges you will probable be down to 80-90% health in a few years vs. 90+%. So you’d lose about 20 miles. This will only increase stress on the battery because you will be pushing the battery to even greater extremes of charge as it degrades to make the same distance trip.

My personal view is if you can’t make the trip staying between 10-90% you’re going too far and will have to charge somewhere.
 

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Will charging that last 10% in the morning make that much difference in battery degradation? My car probably sits at most a few hours at 100%.
Probably not, I'm babying it a bit. Like others have said it's not about how many times you charge to 100 it's about how long it stays there. I think of 90-100 and 0-10 SOC as the angry zones, how long do you want your car to be angry at you? LOL.

Charging that close to leaving makes sure the battery is warm which may have a small benefit with range as the weather turns colder. I'll sometimes add a new departure time too if its colder outside. Between charging up late and using departure times the car should be in optimal condition when it's time to go.
 
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Probably not, I'm babying it a bit. Like others have said it's not about how many times you charge to 100 it's about how long it stays there. I think of 90-100 and 0-10 SOC as the angry zones, how long do you want your car to be angry at you? LOL.

Charging that close to leaving makes sure the battery is warm which may have a small benefit with range as the weather turns colder. I'll sometimes add a new departure time too if its colder outside. Between charging up late and using departure times the car should be in optimal condition when it's time to go.
I can’t time her departure close enough to charge in the morning anyway.
 

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The reality is that the usable battery on the MME is not 100%. we are never charging to the full capacity of the batteries. Do we know what percentage is reserved?
 

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Thought experiment... Let's say the California Route 1 is $50,775 and for only $5,000 more, you can add 75 miles to the range (along with ~400 pounds of battery and maybe a 0.2 second slower 0-60). Do you go for it? At what point will you stop?
For $20,000 more I could have 570 range instead of 270 and .8 slow 0-60... sign me up!
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