Danger in Repeatedly Charging to 100%

macchiaz-o

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Just curious, why didn't you get an extended range battery so you wouldn't have to worry about it?
I am guessing there are about 5,000 reasons.
Exactly. Same reason I went with standard range.

Thought experiment... Let's say the California Route 1 is $50,775 and for only $5,000 more, you can add 75 miles to the range (along with ~400 pounds of battery and maybe a 0.2 second slower 0-60). Do you go for it? At what point will you stop?

If Ford offered a "Substandard Range" pack for my Premium RWD MME, with an EPA estimated range of 160 miles and a cost savings of $5,000, would I have opted for that instead? Maybe I would have... It certainly would satisfy far more than my daily needs for most of the year.
 
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Sort of a side point, but if she needs 100% charge now, it might be a good idea for her to stop and try the fast charger out, to get comfortable using it. Most of us didn’t have our Mach-Es in the coldest part of last winter, and when the temps really drop in a few months, especially for you in Illinois, it might be unavoidable.
Excellent point and one I’ve repeatedly stressed to her. I know she’ll use resistive heat and that will drain the battery. Whether it would use up her entire reserve is yet to be seen. We have practiced at an EA and it worked using Plug and Charge.
 
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It's not only the charging to 100% it is also how low do you go. Does it typically go below 20% remaining? 10% remaining?

If going from 100% to 5% then what happens in cold weather where you might be out 40% range, or you battery degrades and you have less range.

Any chance to plug in a level 2 (or even level 1) charger while she is at your daughters?
Yes, there are 3 Charge Point level 2 chargers up where she lives. She could work it out in the winter to hook up the car and then be picked up by my daughter and then dropped off at the end of the day. Personally, I would use the DC charger along the way either to or from her house as that is only 20-40 minutes.
 

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First off, I would avoid DCFC except when you absolutely must use it.

Second - when she goes on her next trip, send her out with the Ford charger and the 120V cord, and maybe a stardard extension cord if she is going to be staying overnight. Its not a lot, but if she charges overnight off a standard wall outlet thats more juice typically than the difference between 85% and 100% when she sets out on her journey. And charging slow is like trip to the spa for the battery - no stress at all...

Finally, one way to offset the wear of occasionally charging to 100% is to NOT charge every nite when you don't need to. If your battery is at 65% one night and you won't run it below 30% the next day - just leave it. Its a little hard on the battery to run it below 25% or so, and it wears the battery a little bit every single time you charge it. In general try to charge it to 80%, run it down to 30% or so, then recharge it at the slowest rate that makes sense for you and the battery will last as long as you could ever hope for. Wherever you need to deviate from that - go ahead - you bought the car to drive and use it, not to preserve it in a museum.

As for relying on the warranty - yes you have a warranty - but the battery has to degrade pretty notably for that warranty to kick in. That's part of the reason Tesla hasn't imploded yet. Many Tesla's don't typically have much or any battery reserve like the Ford does and owners are encouraged to Fast Charge as often possible. On the grand scale of things then - you'll be fine comparatively.




*************************************

Most of you can ignore this Epilog: Not hating on Tesla - that lifestyle espouses different priorities is all. I kinda see myself as someone who cares for my car as though its a marriage that must be maintained and mutually respected, flaws and all, for the long run. I see the Tesla ownership experience as being promoted more as "Go to Greece for the summer - have a passionate love affair with the car with every fiber of your being - sweat, love, drink, smoke, debauch, perhaps you may die tomorrow. Don't tell your car your last name, and don't ask her vin number. At the end of the summer you will part - it will be over - but you will never forget that summer in Greece. It doesn't matter how long the battery in a Tesla lasts - Tesla owners have accepted that Elon made it perfect with his own Four Golden Hands, and these things are not to be questioned, now push down that stalk, turn on your autopilot, and go sleep in the backseat as it drives you to the cafe - tonight we dance until dawn!
 


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Exactly. Same reason I went with standard range.

Thought experiment... Let's say the California Route 1 is $50,775 and for only $5,000 more, you can add 75 miles to the range (along with ~400 pounds of battery and maybe a 0.2 second slower 0-60). Do you go for it? At what point will you stop?

If Ford offered a "Substandard Range" pack for my Premium RWD MME, with an EPA estimated range of 160 miles and a cost savings of $5,000, would I have opted for that instead? Maybe I would have... It certainly would satisfy far more than my daily needs for most of the year.
The first time when I ordered the car it was with a standard battery. Then we changed the order to an extended range battery. When Ford never responded to me about my order after 6 months I went to a dealer. I figured with the 210 mile range on the car available (std battery) and the approximate 150 miles round trip there would be enough battery capacity to satisfy our needs even in winter if we started at 100%. When I bought the car I did not know that repeatedly charging to 100% would cause any problems (and most days I do not charge to 100%). Paying the extra $5,000 is a deterrent too for gaining so few extra miles in range.
 
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First off, I would avoid DCFC except when you absolutely must use it.

Second - when she goes on her next trip, send her out with the Ford charger and the 120V cord, and maybe a stardard extension cord if she is going to be staying overnight. Its not a lot, but if she charges overnight off a standard wall outlet thats more juice typically than the difference between 85% and 100% when she sets out on her journey. And charging slow is like trip to the spa for the battery - no stress at all...

Finally, one way to offset the wear of occasionally charging to 100% is to NOT charge every nite when you don't need to. If your battery is at 65% one night and you won't run it below 30% the next day - just leave it. Its a little hard on the battery to run it below 25% or so, and it wears the battery a little bit every single time you charge it. In general try to charge it to 80%, run it down to 30% or so, then recharge it at the slowest rate that makes sense for you and the battery will last as long as you could ever hope for. Wherever you need to deviate from that - go ahead - you bought the car to drive and use it, not to preserve it in a museum.

As for relying on the warranty - yes you have a warranty - but the battery has to degrade pretty notably for that warranty to kick in. That's part of the reason Tesla hasn't imploded yet. Many Tesla's don't typically have much or any battery reserve like the Ford does and owners are encouraged to Fast Charge as often possible. On the grand scale of things then - you'll be fine comparatively.




*************************************

Most of you can ignore this Epilog: Not hating on Tesla - that lifestyle espouses different priorities is all. I kinda see myself as someone who cares for my car as though its a marriage that must be maintained and mutually respected, flaws and all, for the long run. I see the Tesla ownership experience as being promoted more as "Go to Greece for the summer - have a passionate love affair with the car with every fiber of your being - sweat, love, drink, smoke, debauch, perhaps you may die tomorrow. Don't tell your car your last name, and don't ask her vin number. At the end of the summer you will part - it will be over - but you will never forget that summer in Greece. It doesn't matter how long the battery in a Tesla lasts - Tesla owners have accepted that Elon made it perfect with his own Four Golden Hands, and these things are not to be questioned, now push down that stalk, turn on your autopilot, and go sleep in the backseat as it drives you to the cafe - tonight we dance until dawn!
Thanks for the reply. As to your points:

1. We don’t do DCFC at all now. In the winter if needed infrequently would be OK in my book.
2. She doesn’t travel with the Mobile Charger. At 110 volts the charge rate is so slow it’s not worth it (and she doesn’t stay overnight). She has L2 chargers up there which could be used if needs be. She has a Tesla Tap if she needed to use a Tesla charger (although we both need to try it out and use it). And of course the DCFC on the way home as a last resort.
3. I don’t run the battery down to 20% or below except when she returns (even then it’s usually around 30% so far) and then I charge it to 90% until her next trip up there.
4. "Wherever you need to deviate from that - go ahead - you bought the car to drive and use it, not to preserve it in a museum." Advice well taken and I'll stop worrying about it.

She can charge the car it's just that she doesn't want to have to do that and if I charge it to 100% she hasn't had to worry about charging it herself (yet). She is like I used to be when I first got the car; charging was a foreign concept to me as I was used to just filling a car up with gas. As I got used to it I found it to be no big deal. She takes the path of least resistance and relies on me to charge the car for her and I'm glad to do it.

As far as your Tesla treatise, I don’t have an answer.
 
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How long is the visit??.....I charge using my 120 line all the time....maybe she could plug in at your daughter's on a 120 line and get at least 3 miles/hour.....I get 4-6 miles/hour on my 120 line......of course this has everything to do with my low speed driving, just the way it is.....even at 3 miles/hour she will get 15 extra miles in 5 hours, better than nothing.....
 
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How long is the visit??.....I charge using my 120 line all the time....maybe she could plug in at your daughter's on a 120 line and get at least 3 miles/hour.....I get 4-6 miles/hour on my 120 line......of course this has everything to do with my low speed driving, just the way it is.....even at 3 miles/hour she will get 15 extra miles in 5 hours, better than nothing.....
That's true but then I'd have buy an additional charger because I wouldn't want to keep taking the Ford Mobile Charger off the garage wall and putting it back. I know you're supposed to keep a charger in the car but with all the possibilities of where it can be charged I keep telling myself that isn't necessary. If we were taking a long trip, yes I would definitely take it. And at 110 voltage she'd only get an additional 21 miles tops since she rarely stays longer then 7 hours. The last problem is that I'd have to send her with a long extension cord and I was told not to use one with the charger.
 

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As stated by some others, the "don't do this and don't do that" is to maximize battery life over many years. Ford guarantees 70% capacity for 8 years or 100,000 miles, and expects to beat that without issue.

Ford knows that a majority of owners will plug in and charge to 100% every night, and reserved some of the upper and some of the lower battery to help maintain capacity.

If you keep the vehicle for 8 years / 100,000 miles, you may notice a small drop in capacity. Few will do this, especially in the face of ever-changing technology and the likelihood that a breakthrough in battery technology is coming.

We charged our Fusion Energi to 100% very night for 3 years, although during Covid it wasn't used much. Current warm weather range has shown up to 23 miles when the new range is 21...

There are fanatics that will beat this to death. Charge to 100% based on your wife's current needs. She will need to charge for the way back, or on the way back, in the winter. Sounds like a stop at a fast charger to give a safety margin on the way home should start happening in colder weather. Get her comfortable with that before she has to used it.
 
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There are fanatics that will beat this to death. Charge to 100% based on your wife's current needs. She will need to charge for the way back, or on the way back, in the winter. Sounds like a stop at a fast charger to give a safety margin on the way home should start happening in colder weather. Get her comfortable with that before she has to used it.
Got it!
 

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Do what makes your wife feel comfortable and happy. If that means charging to 100% each day, go ahead. It isn't a big deal.

A happy wife/spouse/partner is far far more important than a car.
 
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Illinibird

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Do what makes your wife feel comfortable and happy. If that means charging to 100% each day, go ahead. It isn't a big deal.

A happy wife/spouse/partner is far far more important than a car.
Happy wife, happy life! At least that's my motto.
 

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The rule of thumb is that Lithium batteries will lose life span and can possibly swell up if charged to 100%. Knowing that Ford went conservative and doesn't permit us to charge to 100%, they hold a lot in reserve. We can charge to "100%" of the non-reserved portion. On top of being conservative they took it one step further and said that best practice is to not charge past 90% unless you need that juice soon.

Remember, Ford warrantees the batteries for 8 years. They're doing what they think is best to not have to replace batteries under warranty. I believe they've gone ultra conservative to protect themselves.
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