DCFC at remote destinations (and Electrify America)

[MightyJawa]

Like many of us anxiously awaiting our new MME’s, I have been wearing out ABRP planning possible future road trips. And one of the things I’ve noticed is that I’ll be able to GET almost anywhere, but recharging once I get there is a different story. (I end up adding my home as both the start and ending points just to make sure I can get back home.)

This morning I was looking at Electrify America‘s app and noticed the feedback form. So I just sent them a note suggesting adding chargers in more remote, vacation destinations. I expected it to go into the great internet bit bucket, or at best to get a automated response. But much to my surprise, I actually received a call from a real live person. She said they were always looking for new locations for chargers and want to enable as much EV travel as possible and they appreciated my feedback.

Now I know she may have been just blowing smoke, but I was impressed that they took the time to reach out to me. I’ve never used one of their chargers before (or any DCFC for that matter) but when I do, I’ll at least be starting my Electrify America experience with a +1 in the customer relationship account.

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[SnBGC]

Like many of us anxiously awaiting our new MME’s, I have been wearing out ABRP planning possible future road trips. And one of the things I’ve noticed is that I’ll be able to GET almost anywhere, but recharging once I get there is a different story. (I end up adding my home as both the start and ending points just to make sure I can get back home.)

This morning I was looking at Electrify America‘s app and noticed the feedback form. So I just sent them a note suggesting adding chargers in more remote, vacation destinations. I expected it to go into the great internet bit bucket, or at best to get a automated response. But much to my surprise, I actually received a call from a real live person. She said they were always looking for new locations for chargers and want to enable as much EV travel as possible and they appreciated my feedback.

Now I know she may have been just blowing smoke, but I was impressed that they took the time to reach out to me. I’ve never used one of their chargers before (or any DCFC for that matter) but when I do, I’ll at least be starting my Electrify America experience with a +1 in the customer relationship account.

Good to see the message is received on the other end.

We are getting ready to test some prototype DCFC stations that are able to charge from 240/208v service. They have a 200 kWh storage capacity. We don't know the cost yet but these early units are likely to be fairly expensive.....almost as expensive as bringing a full 480v service to power a traditional DCFC unit.

However.....the interesting thing here is that the utility companies are very excited about something like this. So excited in fact that they are talking about incentive programs that might cover the majority of the cost or perhaps even 100% of the costs. This will drive prices down a bit but also make it more attractive to places like dealerships and remote vacation destinations. The reason why the utilities would want these in place is the peak demand events can be minimized and possibly even lowered if those stations can supply energy back to the grid.

Simply put, a DCFC station that stores energy is MUCH more practical and helpful to the utility companies. According to their statistical reports......only a small percentage of the existing DCFC capacity is in use on a regular basis so there might be a shift from On Demand DCFC to Pre Demand DCFC.

A dealership might have the need to fully discharge an EV for service or maintenance reasons. When repaired, they want to recharge and test drive. In those cases having a Pre Demand DCFC station makes sense, especially if the incentives are more attractive.

A vacation destination or National Park etc might also want some of these in place because that would avoid a very expensive service run which could be as much as $200k in those remote areas. A user could even plan ahead and reserve charging time so the machine would start charging up ahead of your arrival and be ready to DCFC when you arrive.

Early days still......but now that some reasonable infrastructure is in place, I think the development is going to pick up speed fairly quick.

 

[JamieGeek]

Good to see the message is received on the other end.

We are getting ready to test some prototype DCFC stations that are able to charge from 240/208v service. They have a 200 kWh storage capacity. We don't know the cost yet but these early units are likely to be fairly expensive.....almost as expensive as bringing a full 480v service to power a traditional DCFC unit.

However.....the interesting thing here is that the utility companies are very excited about something like this. So excited in fact that they are talking about incentive programs that might cover the majority of the cost or perhaps even 100% of the costs. This will drive prices down a bit but also make it more attractive to places like dealerships and remote vacation destinations. The reason why the utilities would want these in place is the peak demand events can be minimized and possibly even lowered if those stations can supply energy back to the grid.

Simply put, a DCFC station that stores energy is MUCH more practical and helpful to the utility companies. According to their statistical reports......only a small percentage of the existing DCFC capacity is in use on a regular basis so there might be a shift from On Demand DCFC to Pre Demand DCFC.

A dealership might have the need to fully discharge an EV for service or maintenance reasons. When repaired, they want to recharge and test drive. In those cases having a Pre Demand DCFC station makes sense, especially if the incentives are more attractive.

A vacation destination or National Park etc might also want some of these in place because that would avoid a very expensive service run which could be as much as $200k in those remote areas. A user could even plan ahead and reserve charging time so the machine would start charging up ahead of your arrival and be ready to DCFC when you arrive.

Early days still......but now that some reasonable infrastructure is in place, I think the development is going to pick up speed fairly quick.

The L2 chargers at Muir Woods North of San Francisco are reserve only: https://www.plugshare.com/location/14250

 

[ajmartineau]

Not EA, but a huge improvement for the I-90.

Coming soon (12-2021)

 

[eltonlin]

The L2 chargers at Muir Woods North of San Francisco are reserve only: https://www.plugshare.com/location/14250

Interesting. Though reservations are needed for ANY parking space @ Muir Woods due to the crazy demand. I don't bother and park elsewhere and hike in...

 

[stroszek]

Hell yes, this will make getting to Badlands NP and the Black Hills much much easier.

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

I used EA's suggestion form as well and got a call back. Nice to have someone acknowledge the request. It seems like they should have some good data on which routes need some gaps filled. Wyoming is a big void right now for anything but Tesla.

I am hoping that maybe the National Park Service adopts the Pre Demand DCFC model. They are usually rather remote and it would likely be expensive to get On-Demand DCFC. Encouraging EVs over ICE vehicles would make good sense for parks.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

I used EA's suggestion form as well and got a call back. Nice to have someone acknowledge the request. It seems like they should have some good data on which routes need some gaps filled. Wyoming is a big void right now for anything but Tesla.

I am hoping that maybe the National Park Service adopts the Pre Demand DCFC model. They are usually rather remote and it would likely be expensive to get On-Demand DCFC. Encouraging EVs over ICE vehicles would make good sense for parks.

There's a strange bit of ignoring history here - it's not you Patrick, you're just triggering me to write this.

In June, 2017, I was in WY for work. My girlfriend and I added vacation time so we could see Yellowstone, etc. We drove the rental car all over the place - put an crazy number of miles on it; well over a thousand. Drove to Jackson Hole, to Yellowstone, to Little Bighorn, etc. etc.

A couple of months after getting home, I tried to plot out some of our trips. The Tesla planner changed one trip from about 6 hours to about 11 hours to hit chargers. That's been built out in the past three years, but the reality is, we never could have done the trip in a Tesla back then, not with having to go so far out of the way to charge. But now, yes.

My point: Charging networks don't spring out of the ground magically overnight. They take time.

EA was founded less than four years ago.

the network (overall - which is not just EA) will get there.

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

There's a strange bit of ignoring history here - it's not you Patrick, you're just triggering me to write this.

In June, 2017, I was in WY for work. My girlfriend and I added vacation time so we could see Yellowstone, etc. We drove the rental car all over the place - put an crazy number of miles on it; well over a thousand. Drove to Jackson Hole, to Yellowstone, to Little Bighorn, etc. etc.

A couple of months after getting home, I tried to plot out some of our trips. The Tesla planner changed one trip from about 6 hours to about 11 hours to hit chargers. That's been built out in the past three years, but the reality is, we never could have done the trip in a Tesla back then, not with having to go so far out of the way to charge. But now, yes.

My point: Charging networks don't spring out of the ground magically overnight. They take time.

EA was founded less than four years ago.

the network (overall - which is not just EA) will get there.

Yeah, as someone said elsewhere on here. Look at the charging network right now. This is probably the worst it will ever be because it's only going to get better. It will just take some time. It's really understandable (for the most part) how the roll out is going. Wyoming will take time and probably isn't a priority for EA and really it isn't for me either.

The location I actually suggested was between Albuquerque and Las Cruces, NM. Adding one station would help complete a far busier north-south corridor. And just one station would really be all they need to make it doable.

I have been researching EAs plans. They have just over 500 stations now and their goal is to add 300 more locations this year (online or in development). That's truly extraordinary.

It's also seems likely that non-Tesla networks (EA, ChargePoint, EVGo, et.c) will win out in the long run. I think it will make far more sense for businesses and governments to invest in a system that supports vehicles from Ford, GM, VW, Porsche, Volvo, Audi, Hyundai, etc., than the one that supports Tesla and only Tesla. I know it is all more complicated than that, but I just always favor open standards over proprietary systems.

 

[BlueMach]

Yeah, as someone said elsewhere on here. Look at the charging network right now. This is probably the worst it will ever be because it's only going to get better. It will just take some time. It's really understandable (for the most part) how the roll out is going. Wyoming will take time and probably isn't a priority for EA and really it isn't for me either.

The location I actually suggested was between Albuquerque and Las Cruces, NM. Adding one station would help complete a far busier north-south corridor. And just one station would really be all they need to make it doable.

I have been researching EAs plans. They have just over 500 stations now and their goal is to add 300 more locations this year (online or in development). That's truly extraordinary.

It's also seems likely that non-Tesla networks (EA, ChargePoint, EVGo, et.c) will win out in the long run. I think it will make far more sense for businesses and governments to invest in a system that supports vehicles from Ford, GM, VW, Porsche, Volvo, Audi, Hyundai, etc., than the one that supports Tesla and only Tesla. I know it is all more complicated than that, but I just always favor open standards over proprietary systems.

EA has made terrific progress, and what's more impressive is that they're building only the most expensive chargers money can buy, which just goes to show how much they must have spent in such a short amount of time.

I suspect EA will not be coming to Cody, Wyoming (to use a prime example of where rural DCFC is needed to enable trips) *at all* because they're just not in the business of rural charging. They're in the business of interstate charging.

EVgo has made it clear they do not believe in chargers outside of urban areas - fundamentally saying that they don't believe EVs are road trip vehicles. I avoid EVgo as a result. To use that Cody, WY example, EVgo has admitted they will never come there either.

ChargePoint has no control over where their stations go, since they don't build them themselves. That's why I suspect they've focused on their 62.5/125 kW solutions and not gone into building 350 kW fancy pantsy systems - they sell 1 or 2 chargers at a time to individual property owners.

I could see some business in Cody, WY buying a ChargePoint 62.5 kW unit someday.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Not EA, but a huge improvement for the I-90.

Coming soon (12-2021)

If there are two places in the country that should have a DCFC, they are Wall Drug and South of the Border

 

[JamieGeek]

If there are two places in the country that should have a DCFC, they are Wall Drug and South of the Border

Perhaps we should browse through https://www.roadsideamerica.com/ in order to suggest DCFC locations to EA?

(Was looking for something more appropriate but then I saw that and had to LOL)

 

[highmesa]

Yeah, as someone said elsewhere on here. Look at the charging network right now. This is probably the worst it will ever be because it's only going to get better. It will just take some time. It's really understandable (for the most part) how the roll out is going. Wyoming will take time and probably isn't a priority for EA and really it isn't for me either.

The location I actually suggested was between Albuquerque and Las Cruces, NM. Adding one station would help complete a far busier north-south corridor. And just one station would really be all they need to make it doable.

Living in Albu-cracky I agree with you on the Alb-Las Cruces run. Kind of ridiculous there is not a DCFC station in Socorro. There are several places to host one including a Walmart Super Center.

My in-laws live in Scottsdale, and that trip is also chore right now - you kind of have to take the long way. But as you say, this is probably the worst the network will be, and I'm expecting improvements over the next couple years. I should probably hit up the governor to get a tax credit program going for companies that install DCFC.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

The location I actually suggested was between Albuquerque and Las Cruces, NM. Adding one station would help complete a far busier north-south corridor. And just one station would really be all they need to make it doable.

Socorro would be perfect. College town, exit at each end of town for I-25. Maybe at the Wal-Mart there.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Living in Albu-cracky I agree with you on the Alb-Las Cruces run. Kind of ridiculous there is not a DCFC station in Socorro. There are several places to host one including a Walmart Super Center.

My in-laws live in Scottsdale, and that trip is also chore right now - you kind of have to take the long way. But as you say, this is probably the worst the network will be, and I'm expecting improvements over the next couple years. I should probably hit up the governor to get a tax credit program going for companies that install DCFC.

lol I swear I wrote my answer before seeing this

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