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Dealership installation of L3 (fast DC) and L2 chargers-

Mach-MI

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Then buy a damn Model Y instead. The rest of us will be happy with our Mach-e's.

You pretend launching the Mach-e now is all big failure if it can't be driven in 100% of all cases and all places. Well guess what?... YOU'RE WRONG. No vehicle can do everything everywhere. Chargers will eventually go in on I-90 too. But we get it, you want your chargers and you want then NOW!!! Well, all the more reason you should move on and forget the Mach-e then.

There's plenty of people that will be happy buying the Mach-e for THEIR situation. That's why there's dozens and dozens of vehicle choices in the marketplace -- to provide something to fit most everyone's needs and tastes. Ford will be more than happy to sell you an Explorer or an Edge instead if the Mach-e doesn't fit for you. (Which is what far more people do, BTW.) Or in your case, just stick with your Tesla. It's clearly all you're going to be happy with anyway.
I never said I liked the Model Y, why bring it up? It's ugly AF.

I never said launching the Mach-E now is "all big failure."

What I have been saying is I question the premise that a $55k SUV is somehow a second car, a car you leave behind when you need to go on trips, a grocery getter, etc. etc.

I believe Ford is asleep at the wheel not having put in a CCS network that can support this vehicle that they are charging us so much money for. J

You don't get to decide whether I want a Mach-E or not. I have put my money down on a Mach-E and I expect when I hand Ford $55,000, that I can take said car anywhere I want to go, without planning or hesitation, because Ford chose to charge $55,000 for the vehicle. Just saying "rent a car" instead of using my $55,000 Mach-E is ludicrous to me.

If I wanted a grocery-getter I couldnt' take on trips, I'd buy that Kandi shitbox from China and pocket the $40,000 price difference.

I don't even like my Tesla. Why do you think I ordered a Mach-E?
 
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Kamuelaflyer

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I don't really expect dealers to install something bigger then 25 kW anyway, cost would be too high and electricity supply for a 50 kW charger might be an issue. On Plugshare I have never, up to now, seen a charger at a dealership more then 25 kW.
And truthfully, I've yet to see a dealership that would be a convenient stop for a charge during a road trip. Overestimated your mileage remaining on your BEV? Sure, and a good deal then.

I can see an occasional need for the 50 kWh DC charger on this island down by South Point but otherwise, not really. This is all pre-pandemic thinking anyway though. Giving an island tour with the requisite side trips could put you a bit low with about 60+ miles to go to get to Kailua Kona and an abundance of chargers.

Post pandemic? It's going to be a long time before we have anything resembling routine visitors at our house that we might be driving around.
 
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Kamuelaflyer

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I could see Hawaii reaching that level.
California and Hawaii are #1 and #2 in the percentage of EV's. Or so i read somewhere on Hawaii DOT propaganda.
 

ChasingCoral

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And truthfully, I've yet to see a dealership that would be a convenient stop for a charge during a road trip. Overestimated your mileage remaining on your BEV? Sure, and a good deal then.

I can see an occasional need for the 50 kWh DC charger on this island down by South Point but otherwise, not really. This is all pre-pandemic thinking anyway though. Giving an island tour with the requisite side trips could put you a bit low with about 60+ miles to go to get to Kailua Kona and an abundance of chargers.

Post pandemic? It's going to be a long time before we have anything resembling routine visitors at our house that were might be driving around.
I found a Nissan dealership with a charger right across the street from a restaurant -- a nice twofer.
 

dbsb3233

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I never said I liked the Model Y, why bring it up? It's ugly AF.

I never said launching the Mach-E now is "all big failure."

What I have been saying is I question the premise that a $55k SUV is somehow a second car, a car you leave behind when you need to go on trips, a grocery getter, etc. etc.

I believe Ford is asleep at the wheel not having put in a CCS network that can support this vehicle that they are charging us so much money for. J

You don't get to decide whether I want a Mach-E or not. I have put my money down on a Mach-E and I expect when I hand Ford $55,000, that I can take said car anywhere I want to go, without planning or hesitation, because Ford chose to charge $55,000 for the vehicle. Just saying "rent a car" instead of using my $55,000 Mach-E is ludicrous to me.

If I wanted a grocery-getter I couldnt' take on trips, I'd buy that Kandi shitbox from China and pocket the $40,000 price difference.

I don't even like my Tesla. Why do you think I ordered a Mach-E?
I'm not the one deciding whether you want a Mach-e or not, but you sure seem to be through your constant complaints about Ford not building a whole charging network (like Tesla) and not being able to drive it through South Dakota and many other places. You ask how you're supposed to do that drive, and I told you -- rent a car because there's aren't CCS fast chargers on that route yet for the Mach-e to use. Or buy something else that CAN do the trip "NOW", as you kept saying. ICE cars can but you call them "crappy". You keep touting Tesla for building chargers there, but you don't want one of those either. You expect Ford to build a charging network for you but that ain't gonna happen either.

Good luck finding something that's gonna make you happy because it doesn't appear to exist.
 

Mach-MI

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Good luck finding something that's gonna make you happy because it doesn't appear to exist.
Can't argue with that.

your constant complaints about Ford not building a whole charging network (like Tesla) and not being able to drive it through South Dakota and many other places
To be clear, I am only expecting Ford to fill in the gaps where their partners have not. I expect a nationwide comprehensive CCS charging network if that's the standard a $55,000 vehicle will use. I don't care who builds each one. I never said "Ford" chargers need to be nationwide.

I do expect to be able to drive my Mach-E across South Dakota, 100% yes I do. It had better be possible by delivery time if they want a sale, as my Tesla and I will do it next month.
 

dbsb3233

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California and Hawaii are #1 and #2 in the percentage of EV's. Or so i read somewhere on Hawaii DOT propaganda.
Hawaii is a natural fit for BEVs. Once range is taken out of the equation (which it mostly is when you can drive nearly anywhere on a single charge), it removes a big hurdle. It basically limits it to being an "around-home" vehicle, which is where BEVs are advantageous rather than disadvantageous (long road trips).

Year-round moderate temps too. The only major component missing is easy home charging, but that's well within reach.
 

ChasingCoral

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Can't argue with that.

To be clear, I am only expecting Ford to fill in the gaps where their partners have not. I expect a nationwide comprehensive CCS charging network if that's the standard a $55,000 vehicle will use. I don't care who builds each one. I never said "Ford" chargers need to be nationwide.

I do expect to be able to drive my Mach-E across South Dakota, 100% yes I do. It had better be possible by delivery time if they want a sale, as my Tesla and I will do it next month.
I'm only expecting Ford to make wise business decisions. Their partnership with EA to expand the network has been one way they've been addressing shortfalls in charging infrastructure. I still think some installation of L3s (probably through the EA partnership) at the customer-facing side of rural dealerships would be a smart move once the F-150e comes out. However, I don't expect Ford to copy Tesla's playbook page for page.
 

ChasingCoral

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Hawaii is a natural fit for BEVs. Once range is taken out of the equation (which it mostly is when you can drive nearly anywhere on a single charge), it removes a big hurdle. It basically limits it to being an "around-home" vehicle, which is where BEVs are advantageous rather than disadvantageous (long road trips).

Year-round moderate temps too. The only major component missing is easy home charging, but that's well within reach.
Agreed. And a few well-placed L3 chargers would finish the deal. It wouldn't take many.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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Agreed. And a few well-placed L3 chargers would finish the deal. It wouldn't take many.
I'm not holding my breath. :)

Tesla has had a supercharger slated for installation on Oahu "Coming Soon" for at least 4 years. Same with Maui. Oahu makes sense, Maui not quite so much. Even the Tesla showrooms in Honolulu don't have (public at least) DCFC of any sort.

Only 1.4 million people statewide here, the market is small -- even for ICE vehicles.
 
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dbsb3233

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To be clear, I am only expecting Ford to fill in the gaps where their partners have not. I expect a nationwide comprehensive CCS charging network if that's the standard a $55,000 vehicle will use. I don't care who builds each one.
The gaps will be filled eventually, as market share of BEVs increases to justify it. So far it's still tiny. Gonna take patience. This is a decades-long paradigm shift, not a weeks-long one. In the mean time, BEVs will be great for many people in the right situations.

Ford's not the one that's going to build an L3 charging network IMO, the charging companies will. Doesn't make sense for Ford to build one, since they're just one of a dozen+ auto manufacturers, and since BEVs are just 1-2% of their sales in the near term. They don't need to build charging stations to sell 50,000 MMEs (the wide-open Dakotas were never going to be a big sales region for BEV market share anyway). There's more than enough demand in other locations, and for more home-based uses.

I have no problem putting "only" 80% of our miles on the MME, and the rest on our Escape. And I think a lot of other buyers come to that same logical conclusion. It doesn't need to do 100% to be very useful and advantageous for many. I wouldn't be buying a BEV if it did (nor would many other people).
 

Kamuelaflyer

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I do expect to be able to drive my Mach-E across South Dakota, 100% yes I do. It had better be possible by delivery time if they want a sale, as my Tesla and I will do it next month.
Your timeline and expectations regarding a CCS charging system in South Dakota along I-90 are probably unrealistic. While this appears to be one of your overriding considerations, the odds of that happening by delivery time are reasonably low during EA's investment cycles one or two. EA will likely place chargers along that route, but it's not a high priority "must-have" in the immediate future for them. Meeting your timeline criteria is improbable. Given the constraints of an economy in a pandemic induced sea of red, it's unlikely anyone else will step up soon either.

I think you're not going to be satisfied with the near term outcome, given those parameters. You might want to consider waiting a couple of years before switching from Tesla if the ability to drive that route without serious planning is an important consideration.
 

dbsb3233

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I'm not holding my breath. :)

Tesla has had a supercharger slated for installation on Oahu "Coming Soon" for at least 4 years. Same with Maui. Oahu makes sense, Maui not quite so much. Even the Tesla showrooms in Honolulu don't have (public at least) DCFC of any sort.

Only 1.4 million people statewide here, the market is small -- ven for ICE vehicles.
I'm sure a few will go in eventually. But heck, even an hour on a 32A L2 will get most people home over such short distances. And with 200+ mile BEVs, they're far less likely to ever run a BEV down to 10% in the first place. The whole island is "destination charger" territory. Nobody is just passing through on a long road trip (unless maybe they're circling the Big Island).
 

Mach-MI

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The gaps will be filled eventually, as market share of BEVs increases to justify it. So far it's still tiny. Gonna take patience. This is a decades-long paradigm shift, not a weeks-long one. In the mean time, BEVs will be great for many people in the right situations.

Ford's not the one that's going to build an L3 charging network IMO, the charging companies will. Doesn't make sense for Ford to build one, since they're just one of a dozen+ auto manufacturers, and since BEVs are just 1-2% of their sales in the near term. They don't need to build charging stations to sell 50,000 MMEs (the wide-open Dakotas were never going to be a big sales region for BEV market share anyway). There's more than enough demand in other locations, and for more home-based uses.

I have no problem putting "only" 80% of our miles on the MME, and the rest on our Escape. And I think a lot of other buyers come to that same logical conclusion. It doesn't need to do 100% to be very useful and advantageous for many. I wouldn't be buying a BEV if it did (nor would many other people).
If 1-2% of Ford's sales are BEVs in the near term there's bigger issues at hand, as I've said. This will be a within this decade transition, not a decades-long one.

Plenty of folks (like me) have one-car households, and won't buy a second car to augment a $55,000 Mach-E.
 

dbsb3233

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If 1-2% of Ford's sales are BEVs in the near term there's bigger issues at hand, as I've said. This will be a within this decade transition, not a decades-long one.

Plenty of folks (like me) have one-car households, and won't buy a second car to augment a $55,000 Mach-E.
And those one-car households that do frequent long road trips and aren't willing to rent a car will likely not be buying BEVs, opting for PHEV or ICE instead. It's a logical matter of buying the right type of vehicle to fit your needs. You can't try to impose one-size-fits-all onto everyone. It doesn't work that way.

Ford does have some issues depressing their stock price, but it's not lack of BEVs. Or lack of overall sales. The recent Explorer rollout (a FAR bigger cash cow) was botched, and that set them back some. There were a few other issues too. They're also a legacy automaker carrying a heavy pension burden (a problem weighing down GM stock as well). But none of that has to do with their selection of vehicles.

The 2021 Mach-e is 50k units out of Ford's 5-6 million annual vehicle sales. That's 1%. The BEV version of the Transit will add a little. The BEV version of the F-150 in 2022 will probably add another 1-2%. There's rumors of a Lincoln in the works too. That's it for the near term (less than 5%), but there's no doubt they'll gradually be adding to that thru the decade. Remember that US BEV sales are still <3%. And the bulk of that is Tesla.

Here's another stat to help keep BEV sales in perspective... Ford sells almost 4x more F-series trucks annually than Tesla sells of all their models combined.
 



 










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