Didn't take long for Ford to take the EV tax credit

Thunderanger

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A lot of that is just 9% inflation in general.
The good news is that inflation last month was at only 3% which is fairly typical. So hopefully things are settling down. I know beer prices are starting to come back down.........I mean, that's the benchmark, right? :)
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dbsb3233

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The good news is that inflation last month was at only 3% which is fairly typical. So hopefully things are settling down. I know beer prices are starting to come back down.........I mean, that's the benchmark, right? :)
Which country? The US inflation number just came out at 8.5% last month.
 

RickMachE

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My sense is that most people who can afford to buy a Lightning will probably be excluded from the tax credit anyway due to the new income limits. I'm glad I qualified for mine this year!
I don't agree. Remember, it's INCOME.

A person can have lots of assets, but not be anywhere near that income level.

Do you think that people who buy $70 - $80,000 ICE F-150s make $300k?
 

1969Mach1Mike

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shelnian

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What happened to the capitalistic phase, "something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", that's what determines house prices and loads of other things?
 


mateo

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What happened to the capitalistic phase, "something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", that's what determines house prices and loads of other things?
As I told my dealer -- I don't care what they charge for cars on their lot. That's capitalism at its finest and people can choose to buy a Ford that way or not. But don't lie to me with surprise pricing when I custom order something just because legally you can and in this market it might be to your advantage. Sure, over time, that predatory behavior may come back to bite them but in the meantime I'm still screwed.

Hopefully it's the latter that most people have a problem with.
 

shelnian

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As I told my dealer -- I don't care what they charge for cars on their lot. That's capitalism at its finest and people can choose to buy a Ford that way or not. But don't lie to me with surprise pricing when I custom order something just because legally you can and in this market it might be to your advantage. Sure, over time, that predatory behavior may come back to bite them but in the meantime I'm still screwed.

Hopefully it's the latter that most people have a problem with.
That's the dealer, not Ford. Ford has strongly encouraged dealers not to charge markups. My dealer only charged me MSRP plus tax, license, and a $200 doc fee, no markups, no accessories, nothing else.
 

awp0

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I don't agree. Remember, it's INCOME.

A person can have lots of assets, but not be anywhere near that income level.

Do you think that people who buy $70 - $80,000 ICE F-150s make $300k?
That's a good question. For a single filer it's $150k of income, right? Everyone's situation is different, but I personally wouldn't buy a vehicle worth half my annual income.

This thread is a nice reminder that I need to go get my $100 reservation fee back! The extended range battery pricing was a turnoff, and the new overall 2023 pricing is making my decision pretty clear. Looks like an amazing truck, and I'll continue to be jealous when I see them on the road.
 

RickMachE

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That's a good question. For a single filer it's $150k of income, right? Everyone's situation is different, but I personally wouldn't buy a vehicle worth half my annual income.

This thread is a nice reminder that I need to go get my $100 reservation fee back! The extended range battery pricing was a turnoff, and the new overall 2023 pricing is making my decision pretty clear. Looks like an amazing truck, and I'll continue to be jealous when I see them on the road.
Many people do things I wouldn't do.

But again, INCOME and VALUE OF VEHICLE have no relationship. Monthly payments as a percentage of income, sure. Or paying cash as a percentage of total assets.

A 60 year old retire can have $50k in income and $3 million in the bank.
 

awp0

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Many people do things I wouldn't do.

But again, INCOME and VALUE OF VEHICLE have no relationship. Monthly payments as a percentage of income, sure. Or paying cash as a percentage of total assets.

A 60 year old retire can have $50k in income and $3 million in the bank.
Yeah, it's a good point. Maybe another reason why the new income caps aren't very fair.
 

RickMachE

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Yeah, it's a good point. Maybe another reason why the new income caps aren't very fair.
Perhaps.

Same thing goes for other "threshold" measures. For example, whether you have to pay a Medicare "penalty" is solely based on income. So if that same person only has $50k in income but $3 million (or billion) in assets, they pay no surcharge.
 

awp0

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Perhaps.

Same thing goes for other "threshold" measures. For example, whether you have to pay a Medicare "penalty" is solely based on income. So if that same person only has $50k in income but $3 million (or billion) in assets, they pay no surcharge.
On principle I like the idea of the government moving to a new phase with EV's, moving away from "reward early-adopters" and moving toward "incentivize EV's more broadly across lower-income demographics". It makes sense to me, even if it's frustrating for people who may no longer be eligible. I don't think the income caps are very fair, but maybe this is outweighed by their general purpose.
 

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I think the goal of the bill is to get people to buy cars that they don't really want, but are "affordable", and get our dependency on foreign oil to be reduced. Would you buy a Mach E that is 1k more expensive but has an LFP battery (heavier, much worse range in the cold, slower charging in the cold) , but you still get the tax credit? That is what most likely will be playing out for any standard range model. I think the extended range will get a huge price increase.
 

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I think the goal of the bill is to get people to buy cars that they don't really want, but are "affordable", and get our dependency on foreign oil to be reduced. Would you buy a Mach E that is 1k more expensive but has an LFP battery (heavier, much worse range in the cold, slower charging in the cold) , but you still get the tax credit? That is what most likely will be playing out for any standard range model. I think the extended range will get a huge price increase.
I think you're giving them far too much credit. Politically, they wanted to say they're supporting an EV transition. Politically, they had to put some protectionism in it. Politically, they couldn't give free stuff to the "rich". This bill has no real thought put in to it beyond the political optics. That's why it's mostly crap without clear and precise objectives of what exactly it's trying to accomplish beyond votes in November.

If the goal was more EVs, there'd be no restrictions. If the goal was more domestic sourcing, they would have tackled the regulations mess that mining and refining are squashed under. If the goal was EVs for the middle class, they would have needed to look in to the practical road blocks that apartment dwellers, renters and street parkers have with charging as well as R&D credits for developing and producing much cheaper EVs.
 

BigMach-E

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I think you're giving them far too much credit. Politically, they wanted to say they're supporting an EV transition. Politically, they had to put some protectionism in it. Politically, they couldn't give free stuff to the "rich". This bill has no real thought put in to it beyond the political optics. That's why it's mostly crap without clear and precise objectives of what exactly it's trying to accomplish beyond votes in November.

If the goal was more EVs, there'd be no restrictions. If the goal was more domestic sourcing, they would have tackled the regulations mess that mining and refining are squashed under. If the goal was EVs for the middle class, they would have needed to look in to the practical road blocks that apartment dwellers, renters and street parkers have with charging as well as R&D credits for developing and producing much cheaper EVs.
All good points. People I know who live in the city/ are apartment dwellers have a serious hurdle regarding charging. If we were being serious about wide spread adoption, we would be subsidizing level 2 charging on almost every city block, and in every public garage/parking lot. But, we aren't.
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