Mach1E

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I wouldn't make any final conclusions until data is available....

5 seconds at high current is plenty of time to trigger internal cell temp sensor. With decent heat transfer, even a second or two more under full power would make a big difference in 1/4 mile.

I think we'd need to see current versus temp over time to tell one way or the other whether current is cut based on cell temp or on a timer.

exterior air temp is not going to change cooling much, so that's not a good test. reducing coolant inlet temp from 58 deg F to 35-40 deg F entering the battery chill plate by running it thru an ice water bath would extract way more heat, and fast enough to make a difference in cell core temp during a drag run is what I'd bet.

considering how cheap this mod would be to test, it seems worth a try rather than a guess.
Given all my experience is from ICE, but when talking coolant temps, even with an ICE pumping out insane heat (way more than a BEV), coolant won’t spike in 5 seconds.

Now you mentioned an internal cell temp sensor, that’s a different story. But I still don’t see coolant being able to transfer any significant heat in a matter of seconds.

It is admittedly all theory at this point without data. But because Ford actually quoted the “5 seconds” multiple times, it seems like it’s a hard limit that can’t be bypassed without a software change.
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dtbaker61

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Given all my experience is from ICE, but when talking coolant temps, even with an ICE pumping out insane heat (way more than a BEV), coolant won’t spike in 5 seconds.

Now you mentioned an internal cell temp sensor, that’s a different story. But I still don’t see coolant being able to transfer any significant heat in a matter of seconds.

It is admittedly all theory at this point without data. But because Ford actually quoted the “5 seconds” multiple times, it seems like it’s a hard limit that can’t be bypassed without a software change.
unlike an ICE with one temp sensor at the water pump, our MMEs have sensors all over the place in direct contact. They HAVE to catch temp changes in the cells, which can happen in.... about 5 seconds..... under heavy loads.

The rate of heat transfer from cell core depends on the conductivity of the web between cell and the plastic foot, which we can't really do anything about, and the temperature differential between the cell casing and the coolant.

dunk your hand in a bucket of 60 deg water, and the other in a bucket of ice water, and I'll bet you'll agree that a LOT more heat is transferred in less than a second.

...There are tons of people in the past would wouldn't hesitate a second to tear down a motor, change a carburetor, add a supercharger, or whatever... I'm suggesting that a relatively simple and cheap mod to improve cooling may get you the results you want without changing driveline or software at all. Full power for another second would probably be enough to hit the cap speed of 112 (non-GT) before the trap and take a nice chunk off time?!
 

Frankie

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I wouldn't make any final conclusions until data is available....

5 seconds at high current is plenty of time to trigger internal cell temp sensor. With decent heat transfer, even a second or two more under full power would make a big difference in 1/4 mile.
Why does it pull power so much quicker if you're already doing 60 mph? You get like 1 second of full power then. And I wouldn't think it'd be the heat generated by maintaining 60 mph, what's it probably take for the Mach-E to maintain 60? 25 horsepower?

Personally I think most of this stuff is a combination of temp sensing and "hard" coded software so just increasing cooling ability wouldn't do a lot without also monkeying with the software.
 

Mach1E

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unlike an ICE with one temp sensor at the water pump, our MMEs have sensors all over the place in direct contact. They HAVE to catch temp changes in the cells, which can happen in.... about 5 seconds..... under heavy loads.

The rate of heat transfer from cell core depends on the conductivity of the web between cell and the plastic foot, which we can't really do anything about, and the temperature differential between the cell casing and the coolant.

dunk your hand in a bucket of 60 deg water, and the other in a bucket of ice water, and I'll bet you'll agree that a LOT more heat is transferred in less than a second.

...There are tons of people in the past would wouldn't hesitate a second to tear down a motor, change a carburetor, add a supercharger, or whatever... I'm suggesting that a relatively simple and cheap mod to improve cooling may get you the results you want without changing driveline or software at all. Full power for another second would probably be enough to hit the cap speed of 112 (non-GT) before the trap and take a nice chunk off time?!
The bucket of water thing only applies if you put a glove on first.

The liquid isn’t going to make direct contact with the battery, and the liquid is also moving quickly.

Plus to raise “coolant temps” because it’s all connected and moving, you have to raise the temp of ALL of the coolant.

And that isn’t happening in 5 seconds. At least not to a measurable amount enough tell the computer to pull power in 4 seconds or keep power for 6.

Again, temp sensors on the battery itself are a different story. And we know there are coolant temp sensors as well that likely give feedback to pull power.

I just would be shocked if the 5 seconds has anything to do with a change in coolant temp and feedback from that 5 second period
 
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ab13

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From the article illustration, it looks to me like the existing cell carrier is basically a 'web-truss' or an 'I-beam' with AL web and plastic top and bottom and has pouches on either side. This means heat is transferred down the AL web really well, but hits fairly high thermal resistance with the plastic foot before it hits the thermal paste and chill plate below. This also means that the AL cooling web is only on one side of any given pouch.....

I would consider this design pretty poor from heat transfer perspective, and probably done to save money in mfg by molding plastic carrier around the web rather than welding or bending all- aluminum L shape pouch carriers that would give superior transfer; with an AL web between EVERY cell instead of every other.
From the Munro video, the pouch edges don't directly touch the plastic carrier, it looks like the aluminum plate is only what the pouches are attached to.

The plate is bent at the bottom in L shape and the bottom of the L contacts the cold plate. There is no plastic resistance since the L piece is inserted I to the middle of the plastic frame.

Since the edges of the pouches are folded sheet, like a Capri Sun or MRE pouch, they wouldn't make good contact unless compressed. The VW design is not shown, but appears to have a full aluminum box, which would be more costly and heavy. They even said the VW design needed a lot of thermal compound. The plates should have been sized to the required performance. The question is what were the plates sized for?
 
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buzznwood

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I agree, there shouldn’t be much technique, but it does make a difference.

Stab and go in unbridled vs:
traction control off (hit button once)
TC and stability disabled (hold button)
Slight brake boost
Full brake boost (full brake and full throttle)
And of course different suspension settings.

All of the above plus different weather, track prep (no spin, slight spin or lots of spin) can make a lot of difference.

The of course state of charge, weight of the driver, weight of the vehicle (pano roof or not) all matter.

Just saying that we are still figuring it all out with very limited data so far. I think a few more tenths could be in there.
Electric motors and the magneride offer a huge potential for a launch control systems which is why it really should all be handled via a closed loop launch control as the amount of fine control it has just goes far beyond what you can do, which in comparison would be a random chance of everything aligning.

There will still be environmental factors to contend with beyond your control but a launch system would factor those in so you would still be getting a best case for those conditions.
 

GT500R

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There's only one (out of 14) MYPs on Dragy slower than 12.21. There's only one (out of 7) Mach-E GTs in "our" database that's run faster than 12.21 and he took out his passenger seats to do it.

Average vs average isn't a couple tenths. It's more like 4 tenths.

It's obviously subject to opinion but to me that is not a drivers race. Like yeah, technically if you take our fastest time it's faster than their slowest time but come on, the Mach-E is losing like 97 times out of 100 according to the data we have right now.

Try and line up against MYPs driven by real fat guys that look sleepy if you want a (small) chance to win I guess.
Or there are 5 MYP on Facebook that have 11.6-11.9 and two of them have stock wheels / other three just have smaller wheels.

there is no chance Mach E wins from a roll, never happening. A dig will be close but by second 5, MYP is already moving cars ahead.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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So you can watch yourself get yanked til 120ish? By the slowest stock Performance model Tesla makes? Bwahahahahaha

Get a valid run first then talk.
Last I checked 60-130s still end at 130, not 120ish. Wtf is that even? Haha. When you run a flying mile do you tell all the people you beat to the half mile that you almost had them after they put 20 cars on you by the end? Are you Brian O’Conner running Dom in F&F? BwahahaHahaha. Valid 60-130s aren’t the easiest unless you rent out the roads you clown. I’m sorry my extra .32 % of - slope has you butthurt. Take my DA down to 0 and call it even. Or, Post your 60-130s or STFU.

You know as well as I do that the fastest Y and 3 P times are always posted when running in 5000+ ft thin air with DAs of like 10,000ft and the corresponding gains in aerodynamic performance. Like this guy with lightweight wheels and all charged up running in 15,000Ft DA, practically no air resistance at all. Your move.
Oh yeah, post the GT500 video soon ?
Ford Mustang Mach-E Discovered: GTPE Delivers 5 Seconds of Full Power on Acceleration Then Reduces Battery Power to Limit Heating 71C71FB9-C526-46AA-BDB1-46E3A022AF61
 
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Progress

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This is only peripherally related to this thread, but Ford just announced that Blue Cruise will not be sent out via the OTA update until the first quarter of 2022, 6 months later than promised. I have to believe that BC and the 1.7.1 update, which is going very slowly, are higher priority than a software update to improve the time and trap speed of the GTPE in the 1/4 mile. So even though I think the hardware in the GTPE is capable of great times and trap speeds given the right software update, now I think that update will be a long time coming. Who knows when we will find out if the GTPE will or will not live up to its name? Can we expect Ford to announce anything about GTPE performance after more detailed reviews come out, or will their silence continue?
 

dbonsett

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Comment by reviewer notes Ford explains the GTPE delivers full power for about 5 seconds, then ramps it back to limit heating. Long term battery life is the goal.

So...
5 SECONDS of power is what you get, that gets you over 60mph and after that, not so much.

5SOP and then CTJ.

That is, you get "5 Seconds of Power" and then it "Cools The Jets" by design.

I discovered this today in a reply to a comment from the GT PE review / drag runs:

-----------------------------------
Dean Armstrong

3 days ago
Low 12’s but the mph is so low. Is the computer pulling or does it 60ft that good? Not hating, it looks like my next daily driver and I’ll skip the drags with it. Good review!

REPLY:

Ford Mustang Mach-E Discovered: GTPE Delivers 5 Seconds of Full Power on Acceleration Then Reduces Battery Power to Limit Heating 71C71FB9-C526-46AA-BDB1-46E3A022AF61
REVan Evan

2 days ago
The way Ford explained it, it gives full power for about 5 seconds then it ramps back the battery power to limit heating. It's done for long-term battery life in order for Ford to guarantee 70-plus percent battery life for 8 years. My guess is that as the technology improves, so will power.
-----------------------------------



@Frankie
@Davedough
@Pushrods&Capacitors
Dont have mine yet. But suppose by 5 seconds in a GTP your probably going 75MPH. Most times that is ok. Just not good in 1/4 race.
 

GT500R

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Last I checked 60-130s still end at 130, not 120ish. Wtf is that even? Haha. When you run a flying mile do you tell all the people you beat to the half mile that you almost had them after they put 20 cars on you by the end? Are you Brian O’Conner running Dom in F&F? BwahahaHahaha. Valid 60-130s aren’t the easiest unless you rent out the roads you clown. I’m sorry my extra .32 % of - slope has you butthurt. Take my DA down to 0 and call it even. Or, Post your 60-130s or STFU.

You know as well as I do that the fastest Y and 3 P times are always posted when running in 5000+ ft thin air with DAs of like 10,000ft and the corresponding gains in aerodynamic performance. Like this guy with lightweight wheels and all charged up running in 15,000Ft DA, practically no air resistance at all. Your move.
Oh yeah, post the GT500 video soon ?
Ford Mustang Mach-E Discovered: GTPE Delivers 5 Seconds of Full Power on Acceleration Then Reduces Battery Power to Limit Heating 71C71FB9-C526-46AA-BDB1-46E3A022AF61
it means you get yanked to 120, where you finally pass (maybe?… haha) the slowest Model Performance Tesla manufactured.

Not all fastest are in Colorado… but it seems you can’t handle the truth. Let me know when you get that supercharger for your sled.

1DB5C861-447C-46F6-8078-3EB2251FB6AE.jpeg
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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it means you get yanked to 120, where you finally pass (maybe?… haha) the slowest Model Performance Tesla manufactured.

Not all fastest are in Colorado… but it seems you can’t handle the truth. Let me know when you get that supercharger for your sled.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Discovered: GTPE Delivers 5 Seconds of Full Power on Acceleration Then Reduces Battery Power to Limit Heating 1DB5C861-447C-46F6-8078-3EB2251FB6AE
Just an FYI, I have roll run enough Y and 3Ps to tell you that I'm at the back bumper until 90ish, start coming by, all the way past by about 110, and at 130 it’s about 5 cars and growing rapidly *if* they stay in it. They’re losing by 105-110 and just utter toast after 120. And I know the guys and they’re actually much cooler about it than you are.

So, no supercharger needed.

/End Pissing contest/?
 

GT500R

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Just an FYI, I have roll run enough Y and 3Ps to tell you that I'm at the back bumper until 90ish, start coming by, all the way past by about 110, and at 130 it’s about 5 cars and growing rapidly *if* they stay in it. They’re losing by 105-110 and just utter toast after 120. And I know the guys and they’re actually much cooler about it than you are.

So, no supercharger needed.

/End Pissing contest/?
Again, I’m sure you can outrun the slowest Performance models after 120, I don’t doubt that, every car can with decent power, you lose in the 1/4 and you loose in the 1/2 mile from a dig.

I’m sure you have video proof too right?

/End you talking about your non EV, no longer produced sled/
 

dtbaker61

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Again, I’m sure you can outrun the slowest Performance models after 120, I don’t doubt that, every car can with decent power, you lose in the 1/4 and you loose in the 1/2 mile from a dig.

I’m sure you have video proof too right?

/End you talking about your non EV, no longer produced sled/

wow, you drag guys get PERSONAL.... ;)

I can't wait till somebody puts an ice cooler in-line w battery inlet, and squeezes out full power for another sec or two.
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