Discovered: GTPE Delivers 5 Seconds of Full Power on Acceleration Then Reduces Battery Power to Limit Heating

[Frankie]

Just a matter of time before folks figure out how to recalibrate the modules to allow full power for longer bursts.

And then those people don't have a powertrain warranty on their 70,000 dollar car.

But I don't think your example is actually true. The analysis indicates the reason the trap speed is lower than expected is because of the 5 second power limitation. Assuming you didn't just accelerate from 0 to 70 in your highway scenario, the GT would have "full" power on tap and would blow the doors off the Honda.

The GTPE is slow from 70 or 80+ whether it's from a roll or a dig. Maybe it's the difference between slow and really slow but it doesn't feel like a 480 horsepower car from a roll for more than about 1 second, not 5 seconds.

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[Pushrods&Capacitors]

But I don't think your example is actually true. The analysis indicates the reason the trap speed is lower than expected is because of the 5 second power limitation. Assuming you didn't just accelerate from 0 to 70 in your highway scenario, the GT would have "full" power on tap and would blow the doors off the Honda.

Correct, if a GT driver hasn’t just been at full throttle a highway “pass” against an Accord 2.0T really wouldn’t be an issue. But, 5 seconds of full power leaves you open to other issues when “passing” other, faster vehicles, if you get what I’m saying. It’s just too short of a window for full power.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Why does the damned honda accord keep coming up?!

Don’t you know the measuring stick for every car’s 1/4 mile abilities has been the Accord V-6, and now Accord 2.0T, since at least 2008 or so? ? It’s a running internet joke that you’ll find in article comments on auto websites of all sorts. Once the Accord got to the point where it ran similar 0-60 and 1/4 mile times to the pony cars of the ‘90s it kinda went viral. It’s stupid, funny, and sort of true in some cases.

2.0T 4eva, right @blue92lx? ?

 

[buzznwood]

But I don't think your example is actually true. The analysis indicates the reason the trap speed is lower than expected is because of the 5 second power limitation. Assuming you didn't just accelerate from 0 to 70 in your highway scenario, the GT would have "full" power on tap and would blow the doors off the Honda.

A lot of manufactures implement some form of timed over boost on turbo vehicles that cuts out after x number of seconds however you can just stab the accelerator on / off and reset the timer until the thermal limits are reached and the feature is disabled until temps return to normal.

So in theory you could just stab on and off and keep within the 5 seconds margin, with owners measured performance so far we have seen a difference in 50-70 times from a standing start vs a roll, but once you get up above 60mph power starts dropping off regardless, until we see a power curve I wouldn't be surprised to see that at 80mph it is similar ta an AWD premium regardless of steady state or standing start.

A 5 second over boost is fine for launching as a few other EVs have similar, the problem is the mach-e GTPE feels like it has 480hp then suddenly becomes 250hp, this is beyond cooling the jets and more of a flameout and needs fixing.

 

[Davedough]

They basically, purposely made it the modern day version of a ‘92-93 GMC Syclone or Typhoon. Killer 0-60 and 1/4 ETs and low trap speeds.

But in contrast, the Cyclone could be tuned by a garage hobbyist to overcome these deficiencies. EVs cannot

 

[Mach1E]

Asking as a non-drag racer, why does anyone care about the trap speed? The winner of the race is the one that crosses the finish line first (ET). ? ?

Trap speed is the largest indicator of horsepower.

Even with a horrible launch, bad traction and terrible ET, your trap speed will still be high if you’re making a lot of horsepower.

As far as the GT and “5 seconds” go, as people have shown, from a roll, you don’t even get the 5 seconds.

And what’s the big deal? The GT past 60 seems slower than a premium. That is never going to be acceptable to those who paid significantly more for the performance.

 

[TTT]

I wonder if the "cheat" for now is to drive it more like a manual transmission car. Go hard at the Throttle for 4.5 seconds, and let up just enough to reset the timer for a tenth of a second, almost like you were shifting gears, and then lay into it again hard for another 4.5 seconds - repeat as needed.

It would be interesting to see if a technique like this could result in faster results than the automatic profile, and quite honestly make for a better driving experience. How much skill does it take to mash the accelerator pedal? Learning to drive the curve and just beat the software sounds like a lot more fun, and a lot more deserving of a performance car. It would be a great easter egg if there is any driving technique a skilled river could use to coax more performance out of the car than just flooring the pedal. Maybe I'm too old school, but I like a situation where technique actually matters.

 

[Frankie]

I wonder if the "cheat" for now is to drive it more like a manual transmission car. Go hard at the Throttle for 4.5 seconds, and let up just enough to reset the timer for a tenth of a second, almost like you were shifting gears, and then lay into it again hard for another 4.5 seconds - repeat as needed.

I doubt this will work. I doubt it's as simple as a 0.5 second timer reset. And even if it did it'd be stupid.

It would be interesting to see if a technique like this could result in faster results than the automatic profile, and quite honestly make for a better driving experience. How much skill does it take to mash the accelerator pedal? Learning to drive the curve and just beat the software sounds like a lot more fun, and a lot more deserving of a performance car. It would be a great easter egg if there is any driving technique a skilled river could use to coax more performance out of the car than just flooring the pedal. Maybe I'm too old school, but I like a situation where technique actually matters.

Then buy a manual transmission ICE car, an AWD electric 1 speed is not for you.

 

[Frankie]

A lot of manufactures implement some form of timed over boost on turbo vehicles that cuts out after x number of seconds however you can just stab the accelerator on / off and reset the timer until the thermal limits are reached and the feature is disabled until temps return to normal.

And from what I've seen the manufacturers that do this are generally pretty up front about it. They don't hide it and let people discover it from a Youtube comment after they already bought the car.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

I wonder if the "cheat" for now is to drive it more like a manual transmission car. Go hard at the Throttle for 4.5 seconds, and let up just enough to reset the timer for a tenth of a second, almost like you were shifting gears, and then lay into it again hard for another 4.5 seconds - repeat as needed.

It would be interesting to see if a technique like this could result in faster results than the automatic profile, and quite honestly make for a better driving experience. How much skill does it take to mash the accelerator pedal? Learning to drive the curve and just beat the software sounds like a lot more fun, and a lot more deserving of a performance car. It would be a great easter egg if there is any driving technique a skilled river could use to coax more performance out of the car than just flooring the pedal. Maybe I'm too old school, but I like a situation where technique actually matters.

Sure, I suppose one could try it. But only if one also pretends to push in the invisible clutch pedal and also bang the invisible shifter into the next gear, right? Just make sure to powershift the 3-4 upshift ?

 

[voxel]

The Ioniq 5 and EV6 also thermal throttle issues too. It's not good.

When the E-GMP batteries go above 40C (or was it 50C?) power is drastically reduced to prevent damage. Bjorn has a review video where he is hammering the throttle and the Ioniq 5 would only push 66 kW of power out... when normally it could push 125-239 kW depending on the trim.

Can somebody measure the Mach-E battery temps?

EDIT: If heat is generated via hard acceleration that to me signifies poor battery IR. If it's just software randomly deciding 5 seconds of acceleration is the max and the battery temps are good - then it's an easy fix.

 

[buzznwood]

I wonder if the "cheat" for now is to drive it more like a manual transmission car. Go hard at the Throttle for 4.5 seconds, and let up just enough to reset the timer for a tenth of a second, almost like you were shifting gears, and then lay into it again hard for another 4.5 seconds - repeat as needed.

It would be interesting to see if a technique like this could result in faster results than the automatic profile, and quite honestly make for a better driving experience. How much skill does it take to mash the accelerator pedal? Learning to drive the curve and just beat the software sounds like a lot more fun, and a lot more deserving of a performance car. It would be a great easter egg if there is any driving technique a skilled river could use to coax more performance out of the car than just flooring the pedal. Maybe I'm too old school, but I like a situation where technique actually matters.

With EV state of charge is also going to impact potential full power, so all ICE ideas really need to go out the window. Which is why a power gauge is a really important aspect of an EV dash so it can show an adjusting max power level similar to ICE engine that have a moving red line until engine is warm.

Sure at least the GTPE has the power meter but it is microscopic, the whole way Ford have just neglected presenting useful information to the driver sums up where Ford are and where they need to be, want to see real time miles / kwh on the dash nope have to look over at your trip, want to know how many kwh you are charging at, nope none of that fancy information for you, so it really is no surprise that someone at Ford thinks 5 seconds of full power is ample .

 

[ab13]

Hopefully they implement a launch mode where they ramp up thermal management in anticipation of a 1/4 mile run.

Yes, they should have had a launch mode that would be limited to a certain number of uses over a given time period. The delays would allow cooling. Would be more useful than limiting it now to avoid people constantly going full power.

 

[RMoore]

I’ve found all of these threads about the power and speed limitations really interesting and entertaining, so thanks to all of you who have posted and actually went out and collected data. I’ve learned quite a bit about drag racing etc and had to google lots of word and phrases. All good. I just have a question related to the software vs hardware debate for you gurus. If this 5 second limitation that Ford is imposing through software is because of limitations in hardware (I.e. the battery needs time to cool or it will degrade too quickly) is it fair to say that it’s fixable via a software change? Maybe fixable is the wrong word, maybe modifiable is more accurate. Maybe with the existing battery they could loosen the software reins and still preserve battery life?

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