Mach1E

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I don't understand this "5 second rule" it doesn't appear to be time based at all in my car.

There is a serious issue with it not giving you full power as long as it should but it really has nothing to do with time. If you're going 80mph and floor it you have it pull power almost immediately and have it down to 60% power limit by the time you've even hit 5 seconds...

If you're driving it hard already it will cut power almost immediately and leave it cut.

It seems to be a current in/current out. After DC fast charging at EA it will have a 60% power limit for probably 10+ minutes...even if the battery temp is nice and cool. It's just crappy software design...or there is a thermal limitation of something that isn't monitored they're worried about. Either way it seems not based on actual temperature data of the vehicle at all...just ambiguous timing/measuring of current.
The 5 seconds is a maximum.

As you have noted there are many scenarios where you get less than 5 seconds.

In fact the only time you get a full 5 seconds is if flooring it from a complete stop with a Goldilocks battery (not too hot, not too cold).
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breeves002

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The 5 seconds is a maximum.

As you have noted there are many scenarios where you get less than 5 seconds.

In fact the only time you get a full 5 seconds is if flooring it from a complete stop with a Goldilocks battery (not too hot, not too cold).
I don't see 5 seconds from a full stop even it seems. Pretty much starts to taper right past 60mph.

So basically all scenarios you don't get 5 seconds. Noted.
 

Blue highway

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So how come Tesla can do it?
Mostly because the chose a different design goal and a different business risk.
The Tesla batteries are cooled better than the LG batteries and for anything short of track use the LG batteries meet Fords design goals. I’ll bet the next gen batteries from LG are designed for better cooling.
 

Mach1E

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I don't see 5 seconds from a full stop even it seems. Pretty much starts to taper right past 60mph.

So basically all scenarios you don't get 5 seconds. Noted.
There have been a couple videos. It starts right at 75 mph, which is about 5 seconds exactly.

If you see gray bars before then, you battery is too hot or too cold.

Now if you are talking about how it feels a lot slower at 60 mph vs 40 mph, that has nothing to do with an artificial limit.

That’s just what a 480hp/634tq BEV will feel like.

If it still had 600+ tq around 60 mph, it would be a 600+ hp vehicle. Hp = tq x rpm/5252.
 

pt19713

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You can see the fleet average per TeslaFi that 13% is abnormal.

If you're at 10% loss after just a year in the boosted Model Y and Tesla owners are accustomed to that, then that definitely tips the scales on usable range just 12 months into the ownership experience to the MME's favor.

IMG_20211115_142213.jpg
It's a little more complicated with the Tesla BMS since most users are unaware of the CAC calibration process, and cell balancing. They've been brainwashed into thinking ABC, always be charging. The problem with this is, if they don't allow the car to sleep at various state is charges, the car never gets an accurate CAC value at different state of charge and thus the range drops. Some are brainwashed into thinking that they shouldn't charge over 85%, not realizing the BMS does active cell balancing when the SoC > 85% and the cell imbalance is greater than 5.0 mV. That being said, most of those crowd source data have understated ranges for the reasons mentioned above.

Regardless, yeah, the Mach-E has more range, no denying that, but when you have good working chargers in most high traffic routes, 300 range isn't needed.
 


breeves002

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There have been a couple videos. It starts right at 75 mph, which is about 5 seconds exactly.

If you see gray bars before then, you battery is too hot or too cold.

Now if you are talking about how it feels a lot slower at 60 mph vs 40 mph, that has nothing to do with an artificial limit.

That’s just what a 480hp/634tq BEV will feel like.

If it still had 600+ tq around 60 mph, it would be a 600+ hp vehicle. Hp = tq x rpm/5252.
I understand that and honestly I don't believe it has much to do with battery temperature in most cases. I think it is a lot more of a complicated algorithm (or simple) than that. The battery temperature unless very cold is regulated pretty well and optimally. Maybe after some heavy track use.

I understand the difference in feel between 40 and 60mph. I'm talking about the actual limit engaging. I just don't think I've ever had a full 5 seconds. Especially in any case you're already moving. You get the closest to it from a stop. 40mph punch it? Not 5 seconds.

My point is calling it a 5 second limit is dumb because in 99% of cases that is not the case. Only case is perfect conditions 0-75 (approx 5 seconds as you noted).
 

EELinneman

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Tesla has done several price increases, one of them being in the last day or so. Looks to me like they are pretty sure they will get their federal incentive back.
Electrek Daily is also reporting that they are delivering some without the USB ports inside the car due to the supply chain. I understand it's hitting everybody, but it makes me wonder if this is why they dropped the radar recently.
 

EELinneman

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I’ve heard about the “save the battery/warranty” argument a lot now about why Ford is being conservative while Tesla isn’t.

However, Teslas have been on the road long enough for us to figure out if there are a ton of battery warranty claims. Is that the case or are we just making excuses on behalf of Ford?
The two car manufacturers are using completely different battery designs. Now, what will Ford be using in 3 or 4 years? Will it be similar or even supplied by the same manufacturer as Tesla?

We are early in this BEV transition, this will be a very interesting next few years.
 

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I may have gotten this wrong, but remember noting Tesla having a very different cooling system than The mme. Might Ford have taken these cautions for a good reason, by considering the safety of the driver? I’m thinking of previous YouTube’s by Munroe and a few discussions here.
 

Riotous

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I thought this was a great review! Mach-E wins every category, except 'many laps at the track'.

The ONLY downside of this review is that obnoxious Tesla owners will never let us forget the 5 seconds...Sigh.

And it does come down to expectations I guess. I have no connection to the Mustang name, so I don't really care. I love the Pony logo. I love driving this car. I traded in a Subaru Outback, so damn, yeah, I love this car! And so does my wife. It's perfect. So many damn Tesla's out there too, they all look like Corollas to me, or whatever.

I get to drive this: Nuff said.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Edmunds: Mach-E GT vs. Model Y Performance Comparison Review PXL_20211106_234140658
 

dtbaker61

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The two car manufacturers are using completely different battery designs. Now, what will Ford be using in 3 or 4 years? Will it be similar or even supplied by the same manufacturer as Tesla?

We are early in this BEV transition, this will be a very interesting next few years.

3 or 4 years I'd predict the major BEVs will all be using Solid-state Lithium batteries.... which will solve a lot of problems.
 

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I thought this was a great review! Mach-E wins every category, except 'many laps at the track'.
5 seconds is a pretty short lap. I take your meaning, though, and have never driven any car at any track. If that was a factor for me, I would not be in the market for a Mach E, GT or not. GT trim has kind of been watered down from the original intent to imply generally high performance. If we take "GT" literally, as in grand tourer, I think track usage should be only a minor factor in any review.
 

DrSteveBrule

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3 or 4 years I'd predict the major BEVs will all be using Solid-state Lithium batteries.... which will solve a lot of problems.
If that's true, something that's been troubling battery chemists for decades is about to be blown open.
 

deadduck

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Tesla has done several price increases, one of them being in the last day or so. Looks to me like they are pretty sure they will get their federal incentive back.
All the incentive will do is raise prices by the incentive and you'll probably lose out even then because higher prices = higher sales taxes. If it goes to $12.5K, and Ford starts building in the USA, the MME will see a price increase too.
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