Riotous

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if you want to feel better about the review, go read some of the Tesla forums, those guys are pissed at Edmonds! Lol. They are as surprised as all of us at the final verdict, after the GTPE crushes out every category.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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We've definitely heard your opinion, and you're welcome to it. However, as I read your post above, your claims of being "unacceptable" certainly sound like you're speaking to it as an authority on the subject while those of us with our cars are simply "rationalizing". Your opinion is not to be held in higher regard than anyone else's. That's a fact.
Bro, hold up a minute. This is an Internet forum, my opinion has the same weight as any other, no more, no less. And I never claimed my opinion carried more weight, youā€™re bringing that into the discussion my friend. And my point stands, the situation is a joke and needs correcting whether you or other happy owners care or not. And Iā€™m glad youā€™re content with your GT because thatā€™s a good thing.

Feel free to block me like Frankie did if you really canā€™t stomach my comments.
 
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Rabidsquirrel22

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if you want to feel better about the review, go read some of the Tesla forums, those guys are pissed at Edmonds! Lol. They are as surprised as all of us at the final verdict, after the GTPE crushes out every category.
The comments on YouTube under that video were pretty funny. Edmunds is biased towards Tesla and paid off by 'legacy auto' at the same time!
 

secretvampire

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He's probably in a Model Y Performance by now
God, I hope so. I've never seen someone so miserable about a car they own. I understand if you have complaints with it, but then spending multiple hours a day moaning on the internet about it.... :D Just sell it, especially in the current market.
 


Raymondjram

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So the GTPE brakes better, rides better, handles better, built better, looks better and has more range.

The MYP can accelerate for more than 5 seconds so it wins the comparison??

Hmmā€¦ I do want more than 5 seconds but still.
98E0649E-2C55-4428-9491-135D15B8792A.png
How about the price? Last night I read that the basic Model Y price increased to $59,000, while a basic Select Mach-E is around $42 ,000. I don't drive around racing other cars, so that 5 second limit is pointless. But the $17,000 differente does make a huge point.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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The comments on YouTube under that video were pretty funny. Edmunds is biased towards Tesla and paid off by 'legacy auto' at the same time!
Exactly! Edmunds totally ripped Tesla about their failure to ever meet EPA range estimates in the big EV Range test (thatā€™s still being updated with new leaders btw). Tesla fanbois cry ā€œFoul!, your testing is flawed, you favor legacy makers!ā€ Never mind that the process was controlled and very well thought out. Edmunds even doubled down when Tesla engineers challenged them, and the engineers ended up backing off their nonsense fixed range buffer claims. Edmunds has more balls than an MLB equipment room.


Fast forward 9 months and a Mach E GT Performance Edition wins virtually ever category of a comparison but ends up
Losing due to what Edmunds deems is a ā€œfatal flawā€ for the PERFORMANCE model. Cue the dissent of GT owners who donā€™t care about said ā€œfatal flawā€ because it doesnā€™t affect their specific use case.

That is all well and good, but, a quick perusal of all EVs with Performance aspirations leads to one conclusion:
The GT is the lone example that absolutely fails to even come close to the expected 1/4 mile trap speed given its power/weight ratio and other specs.

So, I guess all of the Tesla, Polestar, Volvo, Audi and Porsche owners are just lucky their EVs arenā€™t being severely throttled back without even a mention/disclaimer.

And just to state it one more time, I believe the GT is superior to the Y in every measurable way except the one. I also believe it is a fantastic EV for people who donā€™t drag race and still great for those who favor 0-60 rips or 1/8th mile strips.

But, that doesnā€™t mean it is ok or right for Ford to do what they did to it without some explanation or advanced disclaimer.
 

Iknownothing

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Exactly! Edmunds totally ripped Tesla about their failure to ever meet EPA range estimates in the big EV Range test (thatā€™s still being updated with new leaders btw). Tesla fanbois cry ā€œFoul!, your testing is flawed, you favor legacy makers!ā€ Never mind that the process was controlled and very well thought out. Edmunds even doubled down when Tesla engineers challenged them, and the engineers ended up backing off their nonsense fixed range buffer claims. Edmunds has more balls than an MLB equipment room.


Fast forward 9 months and a Mach E GT Performance Edition wins virtually ever category of a comparison but ends up
Losing due to what Edmunds deems is a ā€œfatal flawā€ for the PERFORMANCE model. Cue the dissent of GT owners who donā€™t care about said ā€œfatal flawā€ because it doesnā€™t affect their specific use case.

That is all well and good, but, a quick perusal of all EVs with Performance aspirations leads to one conclusion:
The GT is the lone example that absolutely fails to even come close to the expected 1/4 mile trap speed given its power/weight ratio and other specs.

So, I guess all of the Tesla, Polestar, Volvo, Audi and Porsche owners are just lucky their EVs arenā€™t being severely throttled back without even a mention/disclaimer.

And just to state it one more time, I believe the GT is superior to the Y in every measurable way except the one. I also believe it is a fantastic EV for people who donā€™t drag race and still great for those who favor 0-60 rips or 1/8th mile strips.

But, that doesnā€™t mean it is ok or right for Ford to do what they did to it without some explanation or advanced disclaimer.
Exactly this - as it stands the GTPE is a great car whose Engineering and Marketing teams arenā€™t speaking the same language. Labeling it a ā€œPerformance Editionā€ and making early claims it was the version for track day set some very specific expectations and clearly defined which vehicles it should be directly compared to. I think itā€™s fair that Edmonds says the current limitations keep it from truly living up to that ā€œperformance editionā€ title, thus essentially disqualifying it despite its other great qualities.

For most of us, that ā€œperformance editionā€ label is a fancy nice to have so it isn't necessary to hold the car to the highest performance standards. But, I also agree with those who are passionately arguing Ford is undermining their Mustang brand standards by having a GT Performance Edition only be a sporty CUV.

I saw Edmondsā€™ review as nothing but a good thing and a big favor to all GTPE owners - ā€œFord, improve this one thing and you have the clear and away best performance EV for the price on the market.ā€ Especially since this likely could be improved via a software fix.
 

Raymondjram

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Mostly because the chose a different design goal and a different business risk.
The Tesla batteries are cooled better than the LG batteries and for anything short of track use the LG batteries meet Fords design goals. Iā€™ll bet the next gen batteries from LG are designed for better cooling.
The next chemistry that SK Innovation will use is Lithium Iron Phosphate which does not heat up as fast but drops energy density since each cell only reaches 3.2 VDC when fully charged. So you may get a lighter EV due to less cooling needs but lesser range. What would you prefer?

https://insideevs.com/news/544534/sk-innovation-considering-lfp-bat
 
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Raymondjram

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The two car manufacturers are using completely different battery designs. Now, what will Ford be using in 3 or 4 years? Will it be similar or even supplied by the same manufacturer as Tesla?

We are early in this BEV transition, this will be a very interesting next few years.
Ford will continue to buy cells from SK Innovation which will begin switching their chemistry to Lithium Iron Phosphate
 

Whatstreet

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The battery to wish for is Panasonic 4680, or something like it. It will be necessary to improve the battery to be competitive with their intended rival, as that's the direction their rival is taking.
 

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...And just to state it one more time, I believe the GT is superior to the Y in every measurable way except the one. I also believe it is a fantastic EV for people who donā€™t drag race and still great for those who favor 0-60 rips or 1/8th mile strips.

But, that doesnā€™t mean it is ok or right for Ford to do what they did to it without some explanation or advanced disclaimer.
100% agree with both sentences. For me...the second sentence of the first paragraph describes what my perspective is (... it is a fantastic EV for people who donā€™t drag race and still great for those who favor 0-60 rips or 1/8th mile strips), however, even though it is not likely to be something that I will have an issue with, Ford should have been up-front about the 5 second limit as there are some that will purchase this car with other intended uses than mine. It should not have had to be discovered by the community as it is now a PR challenge. There is really no reason that Edmunds should have chosen the Tesla as the winner in this head to head review.
 

Blue highway

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The next chemistry that SK Innovation will use is Lithium Iron Phosphate which does not heat up as fast but drops energy density since each cell only reaches 3.2 VDC when fully charged. So you may get a lighter EV due to less cooling needs but lesser range. What would you prefer?

https://insideevs.com/news/544534/sk-innovation-considering-lfp-bat
For me itā€™s an easy question. I want the highest energy density + very capable thermal management. LiFe batteries will be the poor manā€™s substitute.

Thermal management is one of the most important factors in charging speed especially above 80% SOC. Similar issue with high discharge rates. EVs draw hundreds of amps at full throttleā€¦. You donā€™t need much internal resistance to generat a lot of heat doing that.

Iā€™d also like to banish the magical thinking that you can flog the battery and everything will be ok.
 

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Ford will continue to buy cells from SK Innovation which will begin switching their chemistry to Lithium Iron Phosphate
That won't work for the GT. The Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry has some unique value in that it likes to be charged to 100% repeatedly, discharges slower and has a longer lifecycle. This is why it is used in buses and heavy trucks. It also makes a great solution for PV battery storage.

I do wonder what the story behind the story is with Farley's recent tweet praising Musk and Tesla. I wonder if they will become a battery supplier to Ford over time.
 

voxel

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The next chemistry that SK Innovation will use is Lithium Iron Phosphate which does not heat up as fast but drops energy density since each cell only reaches 3.2 VDC when fully charged. So you may get a lighter EV due to less cooling needs but lesser range. What would you prefer?

https://insideevs.com/news/544534/sk-innovation-considering-lfp-bat
It's already used in the newest Model 3 Standard Range trims... there are positives and negatives to LiFe (I use that in radio-control/hobby planes).

- Poor performance in cold so requires a heat pump in cold climates.
- Lower energy density (more weight). EVs will be HEAVIER.
- 3.2v is the nominal voltage and the voltage curve is flat so you can't accurately estimate state of charge
- Not for performance EVs because of lower-density. If you really wanted speed and to go 200+ mph... stick Lithium Polymer batteries in the Mach-E. We talk about 36 milliohm internal resistance and 1C, 2C, 5C for lithium ion but LiPos have under 2 milliohm IR and can push up to 100C (melt your wires power).

The pros are:

- Higher flashpoint so less likely to burst into fires in thermal runaways.
- Cheap, cheap, cheap. Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese are expensive. Lithium has never been the problem... it's the other metals used for the cathode + anode that are rare and expensive.
- More charge cycles (like 4x Li-ion)
- The recommendation is to charge to 100% is probably based on the fact you don't know the state of charge... but with more charge cycles it's probably fine.
Sponsored

 
 




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