Edmunds: Mach E vs. Tesla Model Y comparison review

[silverelan]

Seems like there is a lot of apples to oranges comparisons going on.

It is odd to compare Mach-E AWD ER to a Model Y Performance. It would be better to do GT to MY Perf. Or MME AWD ER to a MY L.

Second... Comparing what is on paper as on official spec vs some people reading telemetry off the car is also not a straight comparison.

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm not comparing the MME AWD ER to anything other than the Model Y Dual Motor long range. The 2020 Model Y LR drive units were ostensibly the same hardware as the Performance, thus their output was capable of being increased beyond with just software.

@trutolife27 is saying the evidence points to a hardware change for the Model Y in 2021.

Sponsored

 

[pt19713]

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm not comparing the MME AWD ER to anything other than the Model Y Dual Motor long range. The 2020 Model Y LR drive units were ostensibly the same hardware as the Performance, thus their output was capable of being increased beyond with just software.

@trutolife27 is saying the evidence points to a hardware change for the Model Y in 2021.

Not quite 100% correct. The MYP uses what's referred to as a 980 motor. The MYLR uses a 990 motor.
The link/website references has numbers that aren't accurate. See my previous post a few behind this one.

The 2021 MYLR carries over exactly the same as the 2020, same battery, same motors front and rear.
The 2021 MYP gets a larger 82 kWh battery pack versus the 2020 MYP battery pack size of 78.8 kWh (same as the 2020 & 2021 MYLR). The 2020 and 2021 front & rear motors are the same.

 

[trutolife27]

I wouldn't recommend using the numbers from any of those sites. Tesla sandbags their official numbers. The 2020 MYP has a 200 kW front motor and 270 kW rear motor, or approximately 629 hp.

For the LR, there is no change in the motors. They're still the same 990 motor, so those changes from 2020 to 2021, no clue where they got their source from. Note, there are a very small number of 2020 early VIN Model Ys that have the Performance 980 motors but these aren't part of the conversation since they aren't the norm.

that is what is listed and what tesla has turned in.

Sandbag call if you like or call it anything you like but that is what they are. They did get in trouble in 2015 for lying and underperforming what their Hp numbers were supposed to be.

 

[pt19713]

Just letting you know the official Tesla numbers are understated. It's like all those Japanese car manufacturers in the 90s with the gentleman's agreement to keep the cars at or under "276 hp"

 

[trutolife27]

Tesla numbers are severely understated. I'll post up my numbers, let me dig them up.

Edit: uploaded screen shot from Scan My Tesla app, which pulls the data from the car's CAN bus.
Below is my 2020 LR Y AWD with the performance boost. The gains from the upgrade is unlocking the front motors from 100 to 155 kW.

yes and that is from the performance boost. Getting into a lot of different models and performance compared to his statement which showed was not true.

 

[trutolife27]

Just letting you know the official Tesla numbers are understated. It's like all those Japanese car manufacturers in the 90s with the gentleman's agreement to keep the cars at or under "276 hp"

and that is the point to the mache we do not know what they can or can't do. So the boat goes both ways. But when tesla sends info and it's to the government those are the specs. Can do more? it might fly to the moon but those as the specs.
The article he was pointing out was model y performance and he is talking mache awd, not a gt. That's why the other person pointed out not apples to apples.

 

[pt19713]

yes and that is from the performance boost. Getting into a lot of different models and performance compared to his statement which showed was not true.

I'm not debating the comparisons. Edmund's review is convoluted because they brought in the MYP into the article instead of keeping it strictly MME ER AWD and LR Y AWD. There's also incorrect info posted here, so it's a mess of a conversation.

My numbers also show the Tesla official numbers and what you see on various sites and publications are also off.

 

[trutolife27]

I'm not debating the comparisons. Edmund's review is convoluted because they brought in the MYP into the article instead of keeping it strictly MME ER AWD and LR Y AWD. There's also incorrect info posted here, so it's a mess of a conversation.

My numbers also show the Tesla official numbers and what you see on various sites and publications are also off.

I'm not saying anything you are saying is wrong. Because it's not. But what he posted was way off.
And the truth of the matter HP is not really a good way anyway. Electic power in terms of horsepower is not very intuitive. Kilowatts or megawatts are much more useful units of measure.

 

[EVS]

New article from Edmunds with a direct comparison of MME and Tesla Model Y. Mach E comes out the winner, even beating out the Model Y on driving range.
Edmunds: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E vs. 2020 Tesla Model Y (apnews.com)

REAL-WORLD RANGE
However, Edmunds conducts its own real-world range testing on EVs and has found that Teslas, in most cases, don’t achieve their range estimates. For example, a 2020 Model Y Performance that Edmunds tested had an EPA-estimated range of 291 miles but Edmunds managed only 263 miles.

Ford’s Mustang Mach-E’s EPA estimates range from 211 miles to 300 miles. Edmunds’ real-world range test of an all-wheel-drive Mach-E, with an EPA-estimated range of 270 miles, resulted in an impressive 304 miles.

Winner: Ford Mustang Mach-E

No surprise there! Tesla keeps making optimistic range claims, possibly knowingly.
How is this any better than dieselgate or false mpg claims by the ICE car makers?
What does surprise me is there is no class action lawsuit on this.

 

[sockmeister]

If you're within driving distance to Cecil County Dragway, I should be there a few times this year. I can bring the '20 LR Y w/ acceleration boost or my wife's '21 Model 3 Performance.

I am, actually, it's about an hour from me!
FYI, both of your cars will be faster than my future Mach-E AWD. I did not know your LR Y had the acceleration boost upgrade. Regardless, I'd love to see my times and compare them.

On the stock narrow tires, I'm sure mine is going to spin like the wind.

Do they have EV chargers there now?

 

[silverelan]

Not quite 100% correct. The MYP uses what's referred to as a 980 motor. The MYLR uses a 990 motor.
The link/website references has numbers that aren't accurate. See my previous post a few behind this one.

The 2021 MYLR carries over exactly the same as the 2020, same battery, same motors front and rear.
The 2021 MYP gets a larger 82 kWh battery pack versus the 2020 MYP battery pack size of 78.8 kWh (same as the 2020 & 2021 MYLR). The 2020 and 2021 front & rear motors are the same.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. My understanding of the Model Y's drive units was off. I was under the impression that they were the same but the higher output bench tested units were binned for use in the Performance cars.

 

[pt19713]

I'm not saying anything you are saying is wrong. Because it's not. But what he posted was way off.
And the truth of the matter HP is not really a good way anyway. Electic power in terms of horsepower is not very intuitive. Kilowatts or megawatts are much more useful units of measure.

I showed my data in kW and converted it to horsepower since that's what most are accustomed to. Feel free to scroll back and look at the numbers in kW.

 

[OH2AZ2OH]

Everyone in the US, understandably, likes to compare the EPA ranges. But, as noted, there are games that the manufactures can play with the EPA numbers. The Mach E actually gets slightly higher ratings than the MY in the WLTP test, and WLTP doesn't have the same wiggle room as the EPA test. But, it also looks like Ford might be using a different tune on the European versions - I think I remember a slower 0-60 time quoted from the European site compared to the US site.

I would like to see more info about Edmunds range test, as well as InsideEV's 70mph range test. I suspect the Mach E will beat the MY in some conditions and lose in others, but will generally be quite close.

 

[pt19713]

I am, actually, it's about an hour from me!
FYI, both of your cars will be faster than my future Mach-E AWD. I did not know your LR Y had the acceleration boost upgrade. Regardless, I'd love to see my times and compare them.

On the stock narrow tires, I'm sure mine is going to spin like the wind.

Do they have EV chargers there now?

I haven't been to Cecil is over 20 years. I always went to Maple Grove Raceway, Atco, and Old Bridge Raceway Park. Not sure if they have chargers there. Based upon my drive, I'll be able to make it there with 88-90% if I charge to 98-99%.

Attached is my Dragy run with the crappy stock all season tires. I have a set of Forgestar CF10s that weigh about 5 lbs less per corner, so I'll put on stickier summer tires on those.

 

[silverelan]

I'm not saying anything you are saying is wrong. Because it's not. But what he posted was way off.
And the truth of the matter HP is not really a good way anyway. Electic power in terms of horsepower is not very intuitive. Kilowatts or megawatts are much more useful units of measure.

My original point was that the Model Y Long Range has more headroom for power and performance improvements than the equivalent MME AWD ER.

@trutolife27, if I've said something that's incorrect, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm here to learn and you are definitely more familiar than any of us with the MME AWD ER's hardware and performance capabilities. I'm super excited about the Mach-E and want to soak up everything you can share about the car.

Based on what @pt19713 has shared, for the price of $2000, the Model Y LR has the ability to develop 509hp and do 0-60 in sub-4 seconds. I don't think the AWD ER is able to match and based off of what @trutolife27 has confirmed, it takes the 2x210kW GT drivetrain to match the Model Y LR.

There's obviously a lot more to a car than its 0-60 time but this has been an interesting point of comparison.

Sponsored