sockmeister

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The model Y weighs less which in the handling stakes gives it an advantage over the mach-e, in regards to driving of the mach-e I have seen mixed reviews some giving praise to aspects while others being negative towards the same, so it is going to depend on the driver.
Weight is not the only factor.
The suspension and power delivery are tuned in the Mach-E to be RWD-biased, which favors oversteer in aggressive driving conditions, which is viewed as favorable.
It depends on what the user is looking for, I agree.
According to most reviews, the Mach-E has a sportier suspension feel and less body roll than the model Y.
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Maybe they are comparing the Mach-E to the MYP? They did mention the MYP for range so maybe the MYP handles better due to the much better tire. Mach-E is using skinny tires (225) that are range oriented. Matt Farah said that the biggest drawback to the handling is the tire, next is the suspension but the suspension is great for its intended purpose. He said he expects the GT to be perfect.

Also, Tesla doesn't blend their mechanical brakes with regen. All regen comes off throttle. What's interesting is that, Matt Farah said you can add more regen braking using the brake pedal in 1 pedal driving.
 

pt19713

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Ford never specified, but industry standard these days tends to include the 1ft rollout. MotorTrend confirmed the time for the Mach-E in testing.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang-mach-e/2021/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-first-test-review/#:~:text=The Mach-E reached 60,hp Tesla's 4.1-second time.
I remember reading that Y article a few months ago. The car they tested was a freak of nature, clocking in about 0.5s faster than every other LR Y. My Y with the boost does 0-60 in 3.9s per my Dragy GPS, so only two-tenths faster than the stock Y they borrowed for that article. The owner is on a few forums and confirmed the car was completely stock at the time of the test.
 

pt19713

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Weight is not the only factor.
The suspension and power delivery are tuned in the Mach-E to be RWD-biased, which favors oversteer in aggressive driving conditions, which is viewed as favorable.
It depends on what the user is looking for, I agree.
According to most reviews, the Mach-E has a sportier suspension feel and less body roll than the model Y.
the 3 and Y are 100% RWD unless there's traction loss to the rear tires and/or more aggressive throttle is applied. Generally the front motors aren't generating power until 20-25% throttle and even then, it's minimal.

Below is a graph showing when the front motors are active (pink). Teal is the torque from the rear motor. Blue is the throttle position percentage. This is a 33 minute drive, normal driving. Ambient temp 26F, motors and batteries are pre-conditioned for 18 minutes and were at normal operating temps for winter. Over 33 minutes, the front motors activated 15 times. Of the 15, 12 they barely made more than 5 lb-ft torque. The other 3 times were accelerating from a complete stop from 0 to 55 mph.

One thing going against the Tesla 3 and Y is how aggressive the stability and traction control is when traction is lost. This will be fixed on the MYP once they release track mode, but long range owners won't get that feature.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Edmunds: Mach E vs. Tesla Model Y comparison review Motors_AccPedal.JPG
 

sockmeister

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I remember reading that Y article a few months ago. The car they tested was a freak of nature, clocking in about 0.5s faster than every other LR Y. My Y with the boost does 0-60 in 3.9s per my Dragy GPS, so only two-tenths faster than the stock Y they borrowed for that article. The owner is on a few forums and confirmed the car was completely stock at the time of the test.
That's impressive. But unfortunately, you'd have to compare apples to apples at a sanctioned drag strip and with an external timer to get believable / repeatable results. Dragy is fun, but it can have a large error range because it's dependent on GPS readings, which can vary in precision.

I don't know anything about the car they had, other than that it was a pre-production Mach-E 4x, the same time the rest of the press had.

Needless to say, both Ford and Tesla advertise 4.8 seconds 0-60 for the same configuration car. And we all know Ford was benchmarking the Model Y and trying to copy or beat its specs for the same price level. (So we have the model Y to thank for that)
 


sockmeister

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the 3 and Y are 100% RWD unless there's traction loss to the rear tires and/or more aggressive throttle is applied. Generally the front motors aren't generating power until 20-25% throttle and even then, it's minimal.

Below is a graph showing when the front motors are active (pink). Teal is the torque from the rear motor. Blue is the throttle position percentage. This is a 33 minute drive, normal driving. Ambient temp 26F, motors and batteries are pre-conditioned for 18 minutes and were at normal operating temps for winter. Over 33 minutes, the front motors activated 15 times. Of the 15, 12 they barely made more than 5 lb-ft torque. The other 3 times were accelerating from a complete stop from 0 to 55 mph.

One thing going against the Tesla 3 and Y is how aggressive the stability and traction control is when traction is lost. This will be fixed on the MYP once they release track mode, but long range owners won't get that feature.
That's actually a really smart feature for conserving range. I wish Ford did this. I think Hyundai (?) announced its upcoming prototype would have a similar feature, but the front wheels would be disconnected via a clutch so they'd completely freewheel unless more power demand or a traction loss was detected.

But again, to make a car RWD biased, you're not talking just about when each motor is active. To get into an oversteer scenario, you're generally way above half throttle anyway (so both motors would be active on the Y), and on a turn, where weight transfer, suspension setup, traction, and center of gravity all come into play to determine how the car will handle.
 

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That's impressive. But unfortunately, you'd have to compare apples to apples at a sanctioned drag strip and with an external timer to get believable / repeatable results. Dragy is fun, but it can have a large error range because it's dependent on GPS readings, which can vary in precision.
You and I both know how accurate the Dragy, Vbox and other GPS acceleration devices. If you want to nitpick, add the +/- 0.1s margin of error. It's been proven multiple times to be equivalent to what you get at a drag strip. In my opinion it's a better indication due to not having a pre-treated surface for better traction.
 

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Some key categories missing from the comparison.

1. Marketing BS.
Tesla is the clear winner, and it sells a lot of cars for them.

2. Build quality.
It is a little early to declare a winner, though I suspect it is a big factor for many who are on this site. It sure is for me.

3. After sales support.
Not sure of the winner here either, but I know it is also a big reason people are lining up for an ME. My nearest Tesla center is a 2.5 hour drive. Ford, 10 minutes.

For me, this article is just another reason to be excited for the day of arrival! Thanks for posting.
 

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But again, to make a car RWD biased, you're not talking just about when each motor is active. To get into an oversteer scenario, you're generally way above half throttle anyway (so both motors would be active on the Y), and on a turn, where weight transfer, suspension setup, traction, and center of gravity all come into play to determine how the car will handle.
Until someone shows actual data on how the AWD functions in normal and aggressive driving conditions, no one knows on the MME. Pretty much everything is speculation at this point.
 

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The range is a surprise for me. Most reviews show real world range lower than EPA. I wonder if it is because Ford tends to be pessimistic on the estimation. So you have to drive it to 0% to get real number.
 

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The range is a surprise for me. Most reviews show real world range lower than EPA. I wonder if it is because Ford tends to be pessimistic on the estimation. So you have to drive it to 0% to get real number.
It is a good practice to under promise and then over deliver. I don't know why EPA provides multiple range test options, but it is my understanding that they do and Ford picked the more conservative option. Not sure how that helps them with marketing unless savvy buyers read the Reviews and learn that Tesla's test was over optimistic.
 

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It is a good practice to under promise and then over deliver. I don't know why EPA provides multiple range test options, but it is my understanding that they do and Ford picked the more conservative option. Not sure how that helps them with marketing unless savvy buyers read the Reviews and learn that Tesla's test was over optimistic.
If delivery times are any indication, Ford has over promised and under delivered (literally). I hope that is not the case for the characteristics of the car itself.
 

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If delivery times are any indication, Ford has over promised and under delivered (literally). I hope that is not the case for the characteristics of the car itself.
Yes, but anything worth having is worth waiting for, so it is understandable they would falter on the delivery timeline if they discovered quality issues they did not want to under deliver on. Naturally, it makes life difficult for those with leases ending. I have until March 27. I think transit time is the biggest variable.
 

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That's actually a really smart feature for conserving range. I wish Ford did this.
I don't think Ford can do this because of the type of motor it's using in the front.

Until someone shows actual data on how the AWD functions in normal and aggressive driving conditions, no one knows on the MME. Pretty much everything is speculation at this point.
We've seen a number of reviews, some by people with extensive experience with the MY. Perhaps not definitive but way more than "speculation".
 

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Keep in my EPA defaults to 2 test cycles with an option to do a 5 test cycles to better your score. So far only Audi and Tesla chose to go through the 5 testing cycles.

Another note, EPA tests every drive mode. Off throttle regen yields higher numbers than blending regen with the brakes. That's why the Taycan, which does all of their regen with the brake pedal, has a huge disparity between real world and EPA range. That is also why Tesla is removing their low regen mode at the expense of owners who prefer it for slippery driving conditions, it increases their EPA-range. It's also why chill mode isn't just a simple throttle remap but also lowers the power output.
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