timbop

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Over 300 miles with AWD is impressive.
for sure - but I'd like it if they told you the average speed. Saying "we kept it within 5mph of speed limit" doesn't really tell you anything if you don't know the roads they drove on.

Really looking forward to head-to-head tests between the MME and MY to see what the real range/efficiency difference is between the two.
 

67 Stang Convertible

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Interesting The Tesla Model 3 tested with an EPA of 310 miles/charge only 256 miles on a single charge. While the MME rated at 270 miles/charge actually went 304 miles on that single charge. Of course on this forum all will be very excited as I am. However, I think it shows the need for a better more accurate range test score than the EPA is actually using. I've included the chart below so you can see all the EVs tested. Of note look at the Mini and Porsche, they too are being overly conservative.

VehicleEPA
estimated
Edmunds
tested
EPA
estimated
Edmunds
tested
Ambient
temperature
2021 Audi
e-tron sportback
218 miles238 miles*
(+9.2%)
44 kWh/
100 mi
38.2 kWh/
100 mi
(+13.2%)
71°
2020 Chevrolet
Bolt
259 miles277 miles
(+6.9%)
29 kWh/
100 mi
25.7 kWh/
100 mi
(+11.4%)
60°
2021 Ford
Mustang Mach-E AWD Ext Range
270 miles304 miles
(+12.6%)
37 kWh/
100 mi
33.1 kWh/
100 mi
(+10.5%)
62°
2020 Hyundai
Ioniq Electric
170 miles202 miles
(+18.9%)
25 kWh/
100 mi
20.8 kWh/
100 mi
(+16.8%)
70°
2019 Hyundai
Kona Electric
258 miles315 miles
(+21.9%)
28 kWh/
100 mi
22.3 kWh/
100 mi
(+20.4%)
61°
2020 Kia
Niro EV
239 miles285 miles
(+19.2%)
30 kWh/
100 mi
25.3 kWh/
100 mi
(+15.7%)
67°
2020 MINI
Cooper SE
110 miles150 miles
(+36.5%)
31 kWh/
100 mi
21.8 kWh/
100 mi
(+29.7%)
62°
2020 Nissan
Leaf Plus SL
215 miles237 miles
(+10.2%)
32 kWh/
100 mi
27.1 kWh/
100 mi
(+15.3%)
67°
2021 Polestar
2 Performance
233 miles228 miles*
(-2.1%)
37 kWh/
100 mi
35.2 kWh/
100 mi
(+4.9%)
67°
2020 Porsche
Taycan 4S
203 miles323 miles*
(+59.3%)
49 kWh/
100 mi
32.3 kWh/
100 mi
(+34.1%)
73°
2020 Tesla
Model S Performance
326 miles318 miles*
(-2.5%)
35 kWh/
100 mi
32.6 kWh/
100 mi
(+6.9%)
60°
2018 Tesla
Model 3 Performace
310 miles256 miles*
(-17.4%)
29 kWh/
100 mi
30.1 kWh/
100 mi
(-3.8%)
61°
2020 Tesla
Model 3 Standard Range Plus
250 miles232 miles*
(-7.2%)
24 kWh/
100 mi
23.0 kWh/
100 mi
(+4.2%)
67°
2020 Tesla
Model X Long Range
328 miles294 miles*
(-10.4%)
35 kWh/
100 mi
35.0 kWh/
100 mi
0.0%
60°
2020 Tesla
Model Y Performance
291 miles263 miles*
(-9.6%)
30 kWh/
100 mi
29.6 kWh/
100 mi
(+1.3%)
65°
 

Plutoman15

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Some of this can be explained because they do more city driving for their test compared to the epa. Tesla probably performs better at highway speeds because of lower drag. At slower speeds the mache has the advantage.
 

abr

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Some of this can be explained because they do more city driving for their test compared to the epa. Tesla probably performs better at highway speeds because of lower drag. At slower speeds the mache has the advantage.
Why would the Tesla perform better at highway speed compared to their EPA ranges.
Isn't the CD already baked into the EPA range, same as all other cars?
 

OH2AZ2OH

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Why would the Tesla perform better at highway speed compared to their EPA ranges.
Isn't the CD already baked into the EPA range, same as all other cars?
I think he is saying that the Teslas would likely have fared better if Edmunds had done more highway driving where drag becomes more important. The EPA gives manufacturers some leeway with how they report their ranges, which makes comparing EPA ranges almost, but not entirely, useless. Most manufacturers choose to use more conservative numbers, but Tesla chooses to use more aggressive numbers. That allows Tesla to brag about having the longest ranges, but that does not always prove out in real world testing. There are certainly some cases where a MY will have more range than a Mach E, but not in Edmund's test. If you check the WLTP ranges, which is also biased toward lower speed driving, a Mach E gets better range than a MY. As always, "Your Mileage May Vary".

Teslas are still quite efficient. The fact that they get the range that they do with a smaller battery than a Mach E is impressive.
 

agoldman

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Some of this can be explained because they do more city driving for their test compared to the epa. Tesla probably performs better at highway speeds because of lower drag. At slower speeds the mache has the advantage.
Do what you're saysing is that lower drag = UGLY? ha

I think the take out of this testing is that the mach E is a player in the range field right up there with tesla Y, and not to be relegated to the lower tier range models that seem to be all over the place. This is great news.
 

timbop

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Why would the Tesla perform better at highway speed compared to their EPA ranges.
Isn't the CD already baked into the EPA range, same as all other cars?
I think that the Tesla won't fare better, the other cars won't do as well - so relatively speaking the Tesla will improve. It may or may not be true.
 

BadgerGreg

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I'm eagerly anticipating Kyle's (Out of Spec Studios) range test on the MME. I think he mentioned in his previous MME review that he was going to test the MME against the MY in California. He's a road-tripper and will likely put the cars up against each other with real highway miles.
 

1pt21Gigawatts

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for sure - but I'd like it if they told you the average speed. Saying "we kept it within 5mph of speed limit" doesn't really tell you anything if you don't know the roads they drove on.

Really looking forward to head-to-head tests between the MME and MY to see what the real range/efficiency difference is between the two.
It seems super unscientific to me tbh. No test procedure or anything. Large temp difs. No SOC start.
 

Billyk24

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It seems super unscientific to me tbh. No test procedure or anything. Large temp difs. No SOC start.
Yes. Only n=1 per "category".
Big question:
How does a vehicle with a better kWh efficiency with Edmunds than the EPA get less range than the EPA stated range?
 

Electric Fusion

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..........

Teslas are still quite efficient. The fact that they get the range that they do with a smaller battery than a Mach E is impressive.
My model 3 performance only get me 201 miles from a full SoC base on my driving style going 75-78mph on the freeway .. no where close to 310 miles ..

The fact that Tesla’s are lighter vehicles their range should be better then heavier vehicle of the same type/class .. after owning a model X P90D and Upgrading to the Audi eTron my wife is getting better range from her etron and the etron is much heavier .. so I don’t care about anyone saying Tesla are efficient our P90D had more usable battery capacity than our eTon with only 82kWh useable battery, people keep looking at the max capacity of the battery vs the usable the manufacturer allows and think Tesla is better because of their bs EPA numbers ..

Our 2019 eTron has only an EPA rating of 204 miles and it has better real world range than our previous Tesla model X P90D with much better EPA numbers .. and our etron is also heavier with less useable capacity! So sorry if I find it hard to believe Tesla is more efficient.. and our eTron also charges much faster to 80-100% than even my model 3 with smaller battery capacity on V3 SC ... much less our previous model X on v2 SC ..

The only thing I can agree with is our model X performance was so much quicker and many people like checking it out; with our etron not many people even know it’s electric, they just think it’s just another Audi ...

Anyways I think just saying Tesla in general is truly not correct anymore when it comes to true efficiency.. Maybe the latest model S or model 3 vs Lucid Air or something within the same class .. but sorry Tesla just have high EPA numbers and the only time you will get close to the EPA numbers is driving slow 45-50mph from our experience.
 
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RonTCat

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I think he is saying that the Teslas would likely have fared better if Edmunds had done more highway driving where drag becomes more important. The EPA gives manufacturers some leeway with how they report their ranges, which makes comparing EPA ranges almost, but not entirely, useless. Most manufacturers choose to use more conservative numbers, but Tesla chooses to use more aggressive numbers. That allows Tesla to brag about having the longest ranges, but that does not always prove out in real world testing. There are certainly some cases where a MY will have more range than a Mach E, but not in Edmund's test. If you check the WLTP ranges, which is also biased toward lower speed driving, a Mach E gets better range than a MY. As always, "Your Mileage May Vary".

Teslas are still quite efficient. The fact that they get the range that they do with a smaller battery than a Mach E is impressive.
It shows Tesla's drivetrain efficiency is marginal, but the aero numbers save them. Even the lighter weight of a smaller battery doesn't get them enough incremental range. Of course, they likely sacrifice real world range with the smaller battery to get better 0-60 times.
 

Electric Fusion

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Some of this can be explained because they do more city driving for their test compared to the epa. Tesla probably performs better at highway speeds because of lower drag. At slower speeds the mache has the advantage.
Very sorry but this has not been our experience, both our previous model X and my model 3 .. they perform better with local driving, the regen system in our Tesla is truly better than others I have experienced with thus far, However both our previous model x and my model 3 had crappy efficiency going up to 80mph so I have to say it’s the opposite .. and looking at my EPA sheets not like that matter much looks like the EPA local driving cycle is better than highway compares to others.

anyways all that truly matters is what you use the car for and if you are coming from one EV to another EV you quickly see the difference in range between them doing the same things you have been doing for years .. now most may be coming from ICE to EV and I can tell you this nothing out there will have the range of your ICE vehicle. So just prepare for that and try not to compare it ..
 
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