Electric-Vehicle Adoption Likely to Slow amid Pandemic, Recession

dbsb3233

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That was a given. Dirt cheap gasoline, falling consumer confidence, and expensive BEVs (relative to new and used ICE). All adds up to lower demand for expensive BEVs.
 

dbsb3233

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Harder to project is whether there will be any lasting impact from more people working from home from here on out (needing less transportation).

But also from people being reluctant to jam in like sardines on public transit again. That could push more back to wanting their own automobile.

Some are questioning whether NYC will ever be the same, expecting some won't want to pack in tightly anymore.
 

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Harder to project is whether there will be any lasting impact from more people working from home from here on out (needing less transportation).

But also from people being reluctant to jam in like sardines on public transit again. That could push more back to wanting their own automobile.

Some are questioning whether NYC will ever be the same, expecting some won't want to pack in tightly anymore.
100% this.

Until there is a vaccine, me and my family have next to no desire to ride the mass transit again downtown to our jobs and daycare. We have applied for a parking permit in our building at work to beat the rush when we are called back into the office. It's $300 a month. I am not happy about this expenditure but I have no choice if I want to mitigate risk.
 

ChasingCoral

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100% this.

Until there is a vaccine, me and my family have next to no desire to ride the mass transit again downtown to our jobs and daycare. We have applied for a parking permit in our building at work to beat the rush when we are called back into the office. It's $300 a month. I am not happy about this expenditure but I have no choice if I want to mitigate risk.
And thus something Car & Driver with their pro-ICE tendencies missed in their article: people who understand we must move off fossil fuels need an environmentally-friendly option to crowded mass transit. That may lead to more rapid adoption of BEVs post-pandemic, not slower.
 


dbsb3233

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And thus something Car & Driver with their pro-ICE tendencies missed in their article: people who understand we must move off fossil fuels need an environmentally-friendly option to crowded mass transit. That may lead to more rapid adoption of BEVs post-pandemic, not slower.
Those are kinda 2 different things though... the effect of people wanting to drive instead of taking transit now is independent of how many are willing to switch from ICE to BEV.

It's really more a "rising tide floats all boats" effect. Meaning, if there will be more demand for cars in general from people not wanting to pack into transit, it means both ICE and BEV demand will rise.

The problem, of course, is that effect is way more than offset in the opposite direction by less driving in general, lost income for millions, blown through savings, lost consumer confidence for big ticket purchases, etc. By the time that recovers (it took about 5 years for automobile demand to return to normal in the US after the 2008 recession), the reluctance to use transit will probably have faded too (unless there's more pandemics).
 

dbsb3233

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100% this.

Until there is a vaccine, me and my family have next to no desire to ride the mass transit again downtown to our jobs and daycare. We have applied for a parking permit in our building at work to beat the rush when we are called back into the office. It's $300 a month. I am not happy about this expenditure but I have no choice if I want to mitigate risk.
And even after there's a widespread vaccine for this one, there's lingering psychological effects. Fear of "but what about the next one" will likely drag on for years. This one won't quickly be forgotten.
 

ChasingCoral

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Those are kinda 2 different things though... the effect of people wanting to drive instead of taking transit now is independent of how many are willing to switch from ICE to BEV.

It's really more a "rising tide floats all boats" effect. Meaning, if there will be more demand for cars in general from people not wanting to pack into transit, it means both ICE and BEV demand will rise.

The problem, of course, is that effect is way more than offset in the opposite direction by less driving in general, lost income for millions, blown through savings, lost consumer confidence for big ticket purchases, etc. By the time that recovers (it took about 5 years for automobile demand to return to normal in the US after the 2008 recession), the reluctance to use transit will probably have faded too (unless there's more pandemics).
No question about those factors that will lead to less driving and reluctance to buy big-ticket items. Those are certainly true.

I think, though, you missed my point on the transit to car migration of environmentally-minded transit customers. Some people take transit because it's all they can afford, others because it is cost-effective or time saving. I agree those folks will switch to cars and often to ICEs due to cost. The folks I'm talking about are those who take transit for environmental reasons, knowing it reduces their carbon footprints. When those folks are scared to take transit, they will preferentially buy BEVs or PHEVs. Yes, they are a subset of the market but they will be the sort of buyers who favor BEVs. This is a market share Car & Driver tends to overlook.
 

dbsb3233

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No question about those factors that will lead to less driving and reluctance to buy big-ticket items. Those are certainly true.

I think, though, you missed my point on the transit to car migration of environmentally-minded transit customers. Some people take transit because it's all they can afford, others because it is cost-effective or time saving. I agree those folks will switch to cars and often to ICEs due to cost. The folks I'm talking about are those who take transit for environmental reasons, knowing it reduces their carbon footprints. When those folks are scared to take transit, they will preferentially buy BEVs or PHEVs. Yes, they are a subset of the market but they will be the sort of buyers who favor BEVs. This is a market share Car & Driver tends to overlook.
While there's probably a little of that, I think it's pretty insignificant. Here's why... far and away the biggest determining factor for taking transit or not is whether it's a convenient fit for that person's needs. Meaning it starts and stops very close to where they need to go between, at the times they need it, they don't make other stops or have other things they do before/after work, etc.

Heavily-subsidized transit is much cheaper than the per-mile cost of owning/driving a car. So if it is a convenient option for someone, they're usually gonna take it. If it's not a convenient option, they usually won't.

There's likely some people at the margin (where it's a toss-up between driving and taking transit), for which being green may be the tiebreaker, but I really think that's a pretty insignificant share. Pure logistical convenience determines most of it (for the people that have the money to choose, that is).
 

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There's likely some people at the margin (where it's a toss-up between driving and taking transit), for which being green may be the tiebreaker, but I really think that's a pretty insignificant share. Pure logistical convenience determines most of it (for the people that have the money to choose, that is).
I know lots of people who already have the cars but will intentionally make that decision to take transit because it is the green alternative. I believe that fraction is bigger than you think, for the people that have the money to choose.
 

dbsb3233

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I know lots of people who already have the cars but will intentionally make that decision to take transit because it is the green alternative. I believe that fraction is bigger than you think, for the people that have the money to choose.
Could be. Although it could also be that while some people like to tout that, they would really use it anyway just because it was a convenient and cheaper option.

I had a downtown job for 20 years and rode the express bus most days for that very reason. It just made sense because it was a good fit. And saved me a lot of money (I would have gone through 2 new vehicle purchases in those 20 years instead of just buying 1 if I'd put the miles on to drive every day). Got to know most of the regulars on the bus and the vast majority were the same way. We were all using it because it was convenient enough. If it wasn't, we would have driven.

I guess the real test is seeing how many go way out of their way to use it just to be green. If they're making big sacrifices (walking miles to get to the stops... taking 3 transfers... taking an extra hour to get there...) in the name of being green (if they also have a viable car option), they I'd say yes to those. But if it's reasonably convenient with little compromise, then it's just making a logistical choice (green or not).
 
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Could be. Although it could also be that while some people like to tout that, they would really use it anyway just because it was a convenient and cheaper option.

I had a downtown job for 20 years and rode the express bus most days for that very reason. It just made sense because it was a good fit. And saved me a lot of money (I would have gone through 2 new vehicle purchases in those 20 years instead of just buying 1 if I'd put the miles on to drive every day). Got to know most of the regulars on the bus and the vast majority were the same way. We were all using it because it was convenient enough. If it wasn't, we would have driven.

I guess the real test is seeing how many go way out of their way to use it just to be green. If they're making big sacrifices (walking miles to get to the stops... taking 3 transfers... taking an extra hour to get there...) in the name of being green (if they also have a viable car option), they I'd say yes to those. But if it's reasonably convenient with little compromise, then it's just making a logistical choice (green or not).
I think you are spot on @dbsb3233. While being green is definitely a factor for some, I think most people will not make their decision based on that alone or as a majority factor. I think for the overwhelming majority of people, at best they would choose the green option as a tie breaker only.

For @ChasingCoral, I think his circle is more focused on being green and that his experience is more anecdotal and personal. It's great for them if that is what they want. I think most people in this country have different priorities and desires.

Ultimately most decisions come down to money and convenience. Most will not give up money or convenience for a "green" choice.
 

dbsb3233

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Ultimately most decisions come down to money and convenience. Most will not give up money or convenience for a "green" choice.
I think it largely parallels the BEV market share situation. We had a niche slice that were early adopters in order to "be green". No doubt that segment exists. But it amounted to just 1-2% of US sales for the last decade. The vast majority stuck with ICE vehicles because they were still the better functional/cost/convenience fits for them.

Only now when the functional/cost/convenience improvements in BEVs are producing longer range and enabling larger vehicle size are we starting to see significant movement in consumer demand toward BEVs.
 

ChasingCoral

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For @ChasingCoral, I think his circle is more focused on being green and that his experience is more anecdotal and personal. It's great for them if that is what they want. I think most people in this country have different priorities and desires.
We're close to agreement here and I wouldn't venture to put comparative numbers on it. You are right I am talking about a minority of car buyers, but my point is that it is more than anecdotal and personal. I do have more insights into the environmental community, which actually is a significant fraction of BEV purchasers. Circling back to my point from the beginning, my point is this is a large number of the early adopters of BEVs that Car & Driver overlooked.

For example:
https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/27820/GE-most-like-buy-EV
"The “Environmentally Conscious” respondents see EVs as symbolizing their commitment to the planet, sustainability, and fossil fuel independence."

Additionally, in contrast to the Car & Driver analysis, Electrek found that, at least in the UK, Covid-19 may actually encourage BEV adoption:
https://electrek.co/2020/04/09/stud...ouraging-more-consumers-to-buy-electric-cars/
Sponsored

 
 




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