Electrify America charge rate for --- is up to 20 miles per minute

[dbsb3233]

If you want to know how long it's going to take you to get somewhere, use ABRP as a 2018 Model S/X 100D and there's your answer.

There's no need for that. ABRP already has the Mach-e in it's database. Makes more sense just to use that.

Of course, they're probably forced to use some assumptions about Mach-e range and parameters based on Ford's statements just like we are (until real-world data exists), but I'm comfortable using their data. It's probably a better estimate than anything we could come up with.

As far as whatever electricity discount plan Ford might offer (if any) within the 2 year subscription to FordPass included with a Mach-e purchase, I'm really not even concerned about it. Pricing isn't the main reason why I won't mess with using my Mach-e on long road trips. The wasted hours necessary to refuel the vehicle along the trip is (as I noted above). Driving my ICE vehicle on road trips is just much faster and easier and anxiety-free. But as the around-home car, the Mach-e will be great, just charging at home overnight all the time.

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[dbsb3233]

That's why I said it's a tiny bit vague, as that could be interpreted multiple ways. But every write-up I remember seeing seems to be interpreting it as actually charging at a max rate of 150 kw. Like these...

https://www.designnews.com/automoti...c-mustang-mach-e-crossover-suv/32046105861895

When DC fast charging is available, the Mach-E has a peak charging rate of 150 kW, which with an extended battery and rear-wheel drive can add an estimated average of 47 miles of range in approximately 10 minutes. With the regular battery, expect the Mach-E to charge from 10 percent to 80 percent in about 38 minutes.

https://www.theverge.com/transporta...-e-electric-suv-specs-price-la-auto-show-2019

The AWD version will be about a second quicker at the expense of range, with an estimated 210 miles on a full battery. Both can charge at rates of up to 115 kW at DC fast charging stations, while the rest of the Mustang Mach-E variants will be able to charge at up to 150kW.

(By "the rest of the variants", they're talking about the ones with the ER battery rather than the SR battery.)

 

[eastern refugee]

I apologize if I come across as a jerk on this long distance thing. Forget ICE versus BEV. One person stated that they drive SOMETIMES a trip of 780 miles. EVERY year for the past 10 years my buddy and I do what we call a hockey road trip. We ALWAYS drive. We are season ticket holders to the farm team if the Edmonton Oilers. Our annual trips consist of specific requirements.

1. It has to be done in 6 days max.
2. it has to contain 3 games indifferent states.
3. It is ALWAYS in January or February.
4. It must be a MINIMUM of 2500 miles beginning to end.

in short we leave basically kind of sunnySoCal andlast year travelled thru 8 western statesthru Texas To 30 miles south of Cheyenne in a blinding snowstorm. I am an expert on long distance driving. This does not include our leave on Thursday night after work and drive 10 hours to Tucson for a 7 PM Friday game and back home on Saturday.
My point is in ALL of these trips I see Tesla’s on a VERY regular basis. I also know that in an ICE vehicle you make more stops then just to gas up. I should know cause think about 3500 miles in 6 states from near sea level at say 60 degrees to 9000 feet at -5 in a snow storm. We prepare in advance EVERY stop. You cannot physically and more importantly SAFELY long distances without taking breaks from behind the wheel. The monotony to ever changing weather conditions forces you to. Sure you can mentally say ok. I will drive X distance in Y time and only stop for gas. Is it truly reality?? No. We talk to strangers all of the time when we take a break. Tesla owners have told me that long trips are exciting because driving a Tesla is more of an experience then just driving. It is a different mental attitude. Frankly I was jealous. When we stopped to get gas we would grab a snack use the bathroom and then move on. Have lunch or dinner and again move on as we usually drive 10-12 hours a day to keep our trip on track. Hockey was the purpose but the journey was the real thing. I blog about it to roughly 4000 other hockey fans all along the way.
Talking to Tesla owners who do something similar but different state that when they analyzed it all they stopped the same amount of times as us but they planned to combine things like breaks lunch/dinner etc so that every stop was not random. The bonus was they stayed at hotel chains that offered FREE charging to their guests. HMMMM. In short it is not about comparing ICE to BEV on the same level. It is about looking at trips with a different mind set. I do not debate is the Tesla/Mach e a better car or charging costs because the reality is most will charge at home but when on the road the concept of looking at a trip differently is exciting. I WANT to push the limits. Can we do the same hockey trip by BEV?? I don’t know but I damn well will find out. Life is about living NOT existing. Staying comfortable because it is easier is not in my DNA. I do not want to rationalize because that is boring. Instead just go for it. Why the hell not??

 

[dbsb3233]

In short it is not about comparing ICE to BEV on the same level. It is about looking at trips with a different mind set. I do not debate is the Tesla/Mach e a better car or charging costs because the reality is most will charge at home but when on the road the concept of looking at a trip differently is exciting. I WANT to push the limits. Can we do the same hockey trip by BEV?? I don’t know but I damn well will find out.

And that's fine. It's why I keep saying that SOME people are fine with that approach, which requires many more stops and longer refuels than ICE road trips do. And why I say SOME people take all kinds of extra time and stops on their ICE road trips anyway, and for them using a BEV isn't gonna be that much different. Some people approach BEV road trips as a challenge, just as you say you're looking forward too. Again, that's all fine.

Where we seem to be disagreeing is in the assumption that that's MOST people. I don't think it is. I know it's not us. When we take our 780 mile drive, it's not the drive that's the focus, the destination is. It's just enough miles that we can get it done in a single daylight day and be at our destination (Las Vegas) around sundown. But that's WITHOUT using an extra 4 hours refueling. We stop for one 5 minute gas-up and one 30 minute gas+fast food stop. An extra 3.5 hours would push it into a 2-day drive, and we prefer not to waste that extra time trying to get there.

Now, I know we're probably on the opposite extreme. Most people probably fall somewhere in between (taking more like 2 hours of stops on such a destination drive, rather than just 35 minutes, or 4 hours). Point is, I'm going to have an ICE in the garage as our 2nd car anyway. It just makes sense to use it on road trips so I don't have to waste an extra 3-4 hours charging, as well as the extra anxiety (and extra miles diverting to chargers). Some people love the thrill of that challenge. But I don't think that's most people. These forums and other sources around the internet are full of examples of people saying the same thing -- that they use an ICE vehicle for road trips because it requires far less compromise, but love their BEV for daily around-home use. That doesn't mean that SOME won't use BEVs for road trips, of course. It just means that most probably won't, and for good reason. That's all. It doesn't need to be 100% of one or 100% of the other.

 

[dbsb3233]

Found this buried in another article. Seems to fit with what I've speculated from extrapolating the 10-80% charging times Ford has stated....

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-how-project-went-from-milquetoast-to-mustang

Mach-E will charge at 150 kw—briefly. Early materials about the Ford Mustang Mach-E haven’t been entirely clear if that vehicle will fast-charge at 150 kw, or whether it just needs 150-kw fast-charging hardware to charge at its peak rate somewhat less than that. Heiser verified that it indeed does charge at 150 kw, but only for a small window of time and state of charge. “At our price point it’s a position of strength,” Heiser said.

 

[dbsb3233]

Agreed, Some will, but most wouldn't. But it's a perfect scenario for someone with a home charger. 106 miles/day is high usage to really maximize a BEV's fuel savings at residential rates, but still fits nicely within a single overnight home charge.

 

[timbop]

That's why I said it's a tiny bit vague, as that could be interpreted multiple ways. But every write-up I remember seeing seems to be interpreting it as actually charging at a max rate of 150 kw. Like these...

https://www.designnews.com/automoti...c-mustang-mach-e-crossover-suv/32046105861895

When DC fast charging is available, the Mach-E has a peak charging rate of 150 kW, which with an extended battery and rear-wheel drive can add an estimated average of 47 miles of range in approximately 10 minutes. With the regular battery, expect the Mach-E to charge from 10 percent to 80 percent in about 38 minutes.

https://www.theverge.com/transporta...-e-electric-suv-specs-price-la-auto-show-2019

The AWD version will be about a second quicker at the expense of range, with an estimated 210 miles on a full battery. Both can charge at rates of up to 115 kW at DC fast charging stations, while the rest of the Mustang Mach-E variants will be able to charge at up to 150kW.

(By "the rest of the variants", they're talking about the ones with the ER battery rather than the SR battery.)

You can see the 115 (SR) and 150kw (ER) MAX charging on their spec sheet: https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...df/seo-pdfs/Mustang_Mach-E_Tech_Specs-SEO.pdf. it is not entirely clear on that sheet, but subsequent interviews and information make it apparent that is the case.

It's clear you are going out of your way to be polite and have a genuine conversation with that other forum member whose avatar and username was taken from disney. I was the same way for the first week after he/she joined. It became clear to me at that point that I was wasting my time and that he/she was incapable of sustaining an informed and useful dialogue, so I hid his posts. Do yourself a favor and move on...

 

[dbsb3233]

You can see the 115 (SR) and 150kw (ER) MAX charging on their spec sheet: https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...df/seo-pdfs/Mustang_Mach-E_Tech_Specs-SEO.pdf. it is not entirely clear on that sheet, but subsequent interviews and information make it apparent that is the case.

The one I found most interesting is the subsequent one I posted above that said:

Heiser verified that it indeed does charge at 150 kw, but only for a small window of time and state of charge. “At our price point it’s a position of strength,” Heiser said.

That's the first real insight to the charging curve I've seen mentioned. It suggests a pretty disappointing charging curve. And coincides with the math of "10-80% charge in 45 minutes" on the 300-mile version. By my estimates, 70% of the usable ER battery is likely about 63 kWh. For it to take 45 minutes, that's only an avg of 1.4 kWh per minute. But peak charge @ 150 kW would be 2.5 kWh per minute. I'm guessing it only holds that 150 kW rate for maybe 10 minutes before tapering rather severely for the avg to fall to 1.4. 10 minutes @ 2.5 would be 25 kWh added to the car, or 25% of the ER battery. So maybe just the 10-35% range where we get a full 150 kW charge rate.

Just my speculation. But probably something in that general range. Heiser basically said they had to compromise there to keep the price down.

 

[Billyk24]

1.4kWh per minute could also be referred as 4.76 miles per minute (x3.4 factor) to 5.6 miles per minute (x4.0 factor).

 

[dbsb3233]

1.4kWh per minute could also be referred as 4.76 miles per minute (x3.4 factor) to 5.6 miles per minute (x4.0 factor).

Potentially, depending on what the efficiency of the Mach-e ends up being in miles/kWh. That's even harder to nail down since it varies so widely. At high speed (where range matters most), it could even drop all the way to something like 2.2 miles/kWh. But something closer to 3.0-3.4 is probably the midpoint. That's the area they use for the 300 mile range estimate (depending on how much battery reserve they're blocking off). If there's 90 kWh usable out of the 98.9 kWh battery, 300 / 90 = 3.33 miles/kWh.

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