timbop

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That's assuming space at chargers is the limiting factor. I've only once had to wait for a charger and it was a free charger at a Nissan dealership. I have yet to have to wait to get onto a commercial charger where I had to pay to charge. Frequently there are banks of chargers where I am only one of a few cars charging with many open. That's even been true at the bank of free chargers at the Maryand I-95 service plazas.
That will likely change as BEV's attain a much larger market share, especially at highway rest stops. Of course, by then hopefully the number of chargers at such high traffic locations increases to make up the difference
 

dbsb3233

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To be fair, if they cannot charge more per kWh for a faster charge, there is little incentive for them to install faster, more expensive chargers.
Except for being able to sell more in less time. Which will probably be a big deal when BEVs become more ubiquitous.

If anything, they'd be more likely to charge more for SLOWER charging speeds. A vehicle that ties up the charger longer for the same 50 kWh of electricity is worse for them than the vehicle that gets it done quicker and frees up the charger for another customer (thus more revenues).
 

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Another interesting consequence of people being able to directly compare their kWh rates at retail chargers vs at home may be pushing people even more toward home charging and away from retail charging.

If they see that electricity at home costs them $0.12/kWh but something like $0.49/kWh at a station, many may say "Whoa, screw that! I'll figure out how to charge at home or work." Which is logical since that's where it really makes sense to get a BEV (if you can do almost all your charging at home or work).
 

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I think Electrify America should charge for both time and electricity.
You raise some excellent points. Time is a non-issue at a gas station because all ICE vehicle can fill up in just a couple of minutes, but just imagine if gas refueling took anywhere from 10 to 40 minutes instead. People waiting in line would be fuming (no pun intended).

Maybe a better anecdotal example most have dealt with already is a car wash. Some people take 5 minutes while others take 10-15 minutes. Getting stuck behind the one doing the pre-soaks and the tire scrubs sucks.
 

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While moving to kWh is great. Nothing says they will or wont have different $ based on the speed of charge. Kind of like Regular/Plus/Premium gas. Same amount. I know its still different but in general, I don't trust companies. They will stick it to the consumers as long as they can get away with it. They never do anything just for the good of it. Always someone forcing them...either governments or competition. When was the last time a monopoly self policing themselves and made changes for the good of all?
Absolutely right on!
 
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Another interesting consequence of people being able to directly compare their kWh rates at retail chargers vs at home may be pushing people even more toward home charging and away from retail charging.

If they see that electricity at home costs them $0.12/kWh but something like $0.49/kWh at a station, many may say "Whoa, screw that! I'll figure out how to charge at home or work." Which is logical since that's where it really makes sense to get a BEV (if you can do almost all your charging at home or work).
$0.12/kWh?? What? if you get time-of-day charging you can get that down a bit more, something like $0.04/kWh overnight.
 

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While moving to kWh is great. Nothing says they will or wont have different $ based on the speed of charge. Kind of like Regular/Plus/Premium gas. Same amount. I know its still different but in general, I don't trust companies. They will stick it to the consumers as long as they can get away with it. They never do anything just for the good of it. Always someone forcing them...either governments or competition. When was the last time a monopoly self policing themselves and made changes for the good of all?
I tried to leave this be but I couldn't. It's not a company's job to "make changes for the good of all". Their job is to make money. That's why they exist. And that's the way it should be.

Just like it's consumers' objective to buy things for the best price they can get it for, it's a retailer's objective to get the best price they can for what they're selling. That's how markets function.

Yes, competition is very important, and wonderful. It's what keeps buyers and sellers in check. Monopolies are bad. We need multiple charging station companies competing against each other.
 

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$0.12/kWh?? What? if you get time-of-day charging you can get that down a bit more, something like $0.04/kWh overnight.
Actually mine is $0.105/kWh, but sounds like it's quite a bit more in other places (like CA), so I chose a more middling number.

Not sure how many places have time-of-day pricing.
 

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I tried to leave this be but I couldn't. It's not a company's job to "make changes for the good of all". Their job is to make money. That's why they exist. And that's the way it should be.

Just like it's consumers' objective to buy things for the best price they can get it for, it's a retailer's objective to get the best price they can for what they're selling. That's how markets function.

Yes, competition is very important, and wonderful. It's what keeps buyers and sellers in check. Monopolies are bad. We need multiple charging station companies competing against each other.
I believe we are saying the same thing but in a different way. I never say that is what companies should do. It is their job running the company to make money. But that normally is at odds with the consumers. One wants to make the most $$$ for their efforts. The consumers wants the best thing for the lowest price. So when any company does anything for the good of the community...I am skeptical.
 

dbsb3233

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I believe we are saying the same thing but in a different way. I never say that is what companies should do. It is their job running the company to make money. But that normally is at odds with the consumers. One wants to make the most $$$ for their efforts. The consumers wants the best thing for the lowest price. So when any company does anything for the good of the community...I am skeptical.
Fair enough. If "by skeptical" you mean they probably have dual motivations involved (like PR/brand marketing), I wholly agree. Like Ford making masks and ventilators. It's a nice "good for the country" thing to do, but there's no doubt some dual purpose to it to create good PR for their brand. Which is fine with me.

Agree that buyers and sellers are on opposite ends of every transaction, both trying to get the best deal they can get. But they also need each other to survive.
 

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Pay by the kWh rate-is that going to be the same for member verse non-paying membership? Or is EA going to get rid of the membership fees?
 

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Driving around the Olympic Peninsula is practically impossible in a CCS vehicle until at least a couple more stations arrive.
Be good to see local governments step up, they depend on tourism and people getting to the coast. If all the local towns put in CCS fast DC chargers, they make themselves viable EV destinations.
 

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Pay by the kWh rate-is that going to be the same for member verse non-paying membership? Or is EA going to get rid of the membership fees?
No sign the membership model is going away yet. It provides steady income to charging companies and encourages customer loyalty. The good news is it sounds like the Ford Pass will cover EA membership.
 

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I sort of wonder if the switch by EA in the near future to kWh pricing is due to the fact that 800 volt architecture is coming soon? 800V promises 20 minutes to charge to 80% so maybe the time-based business model doesn't work anymore?

20 minutes at the 350kW price tier is less than $14 in CA.

45 min for the Mach-E on the same pricing tier is more than $31.
 
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