Elon Musk slams Biden's plan to spend government money on electric vehicles

Status
Not open for further replies.

nvabill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
48
Messages
1,929
Reaction score
1,536
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Vehicles
F-150, '22 California Route 1
Country flag
Before everyone gets all terrified of a transient spike in inflation, let’s take a quick look at the facts ? Come on people, you all ((I’m speaking genericAlly here) are the same ones who obsess over power consumption per nanosecond on climbs up Mount Everest. Or time charging sessions using atomic clocks ?

2EFC0CCD-7D41-4F6D-A1AE-1619387DEFFB.png
Let's hope it is only a transient spike, this we will only know if it ends.
 

Jimrpa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
230
Messages
7,005
Reaction score
9,297
Location
Wayne, PA
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue Premium Mustang Mach E ER AWD
Occupation
Retied (formerly tried to herd highly technical, independent cats)
Country flag
Do you know where that actually is? So Tesla is moving to an area outside Austin Texas, to escape regulatory issues in TEXAS for SpaceX?

He is expanding outside California due to the oppressive business climate and fully states that he plans to continue Tesla operations in California. That doesn't make him a bad person.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. Yep, I know where Boca Chica and Austin are (approximately). I’m the same sense that someone who isn’t too familiar with Pennsylvania might know approximately where Bird-in-Hand and Harrisburg are ? it’s interesting that he finds California’s business climate to be “oppressive”, but not China or Europe? You sure about his motivation?
 

woody

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
778
Reaction score
675
Location
CO
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E, Chevy Bolt
Country flag
Rookie mistake ? many people state/assume the US has both a purely free enterprise (some might say “pure capitalism”, or “pure market driven”g economy. They’d be very, very, very wrong. I’m not aware of any current examples of absolutely pure “capitalist”, “free market”, or “free enterprise” economies today, and I suspect most people would not actually like such a system, if they understood what it meant in both an economic sense and a policy sense. For example, in an absolute, pure, free-market-driven capitalist economic system, PECO (my electric provider) could just randomly change their generation price for electricity to $4/KwH with no notice.
Yes. Of course. We are only talking about perfect, absolute, pure systems because we are all morons who understand nothing.
Or maybe we could form a government with legislative, judicial and executive branches. How about a republic(what thinkest thou, Plato?)? And maybe we could regulate "things" here and there and then again. Even come up with a policy or two.
Perhaps great grandpa could have purchased regulated utility stocks for great grandma in order to provide an guaranteed income for her after he died.
Just think. An individual could be free to start his own business. Free to succeed. Free to fail. Even have some protections as an individual and as a business owner.
But only if we had an economic system.
Jim assumes.
According to Jim we cannot have an economic system because we are talking about a perfect, absolute and pure system, are we not? According to Jim we are mistaken, are rookies and do not understand anything.
When I grow up I want to be according to Jim. Have my own high horse.
Absolute. Pure. Perfect and no mistakes. See the light and be able to understand.
Ain't life grand.
 

RedStallion

Banned
Banned
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Threads
50
Messages
1,394
Reaction score
1,762
Location
People's Republic of California
Vehicles
Mach-E, et al
Country flag
Scary times, inflation worse than it has been in 40 years!
Inflation is actually much worse than 40 years ago. Since that time the formula for calculating inflation has been changed to reduce it. And what makes it even worse is that the Fed has no instruments to fight it. They are still adding gasoline to the fire with QE billions every month. And they can't raise interest rates without destroying this country. Just servicing of the national debt, which is already about $30T, will be fatal. We are in the worst bubble of everything and there is no good solution.
 


nvabill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
48
Messages
1,929
Reaction score
1,536
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Vehicles
F-150, '22 California Route 1
Country flag
Inflation is actually much worse than 40 years ago. Since that time the formula for calculating inflation has been changed to reduce it. And what makes it even worse is that the Fed has no instruments to fight it. They are still adding gasoline to the fire with QE billions every month. And they can't raise interest rates without destroying this country. Just servicing of the national debt, which is already about $30T, will be fatal. We are in the worst bubble of everything and there is no good solution.
Yes we are and I often wonder just how much debt is too much for our government?!
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
6,068
Reaction score
8,014
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
Do you understand the underlying policy premise driving electric vehicle subsidies/rebates/whatever? We can debate the implementation and current structure. The underlying policy is either reasonable or it’s not. You can’t say it’s only reasonable for one manufacturer.
Absolutely I understand it, and it is unreasonable for all manufacturers. Our government should not be taking money from hard working taxpayers and giving it to people who can afford to spend $60,000+++ on a vehicle. It is not only wasteful of our earnings, it is immoral.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
6,068
Reaction score
8,014
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
in a pure capitalist system Tesla would have failed
Conjecture. Certainly it would have been harder, but I bet he would have gotten the right investors to support the company for long enough to be successful. And I seriously doubt the government subsidies on the cars Tesla was selling to rich people made any difference at all. People didn't purchase those cars because there was a $7500 handout from other taxpayers.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
6,068
Reaction score
8,014
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
Rookie mistake ? many people state/assume the US has both a purely free enterprise (some might say “pure capitalism”, or “pure market driven”g economy.
Nobody assumes that. Name one person. We all know our government has implemented taxes and regulations on just about everything we do, driving up the cost of everything. The inflation we are experiencing now is artificial, caused by government policies.

For example, in an absolute, pure, free-market-driven capitalist economic system, PECO (my electric provider) could just randomly change their generation price for electricity to $4/KwH with no notice.
This is absolutely correct. So if PECO did that, in a free market what would free consumers do? Maybe buy a bunch of solar panels for their house? Maybe install a Natural Gas generator? Just think of all the really awesome things entrepreneurs would develop to compete with the stupid actions PECO might take? Is it possible solar might be more widely adopted than it is now? Nobody knows, but it is very possible. Is that bad, or good?

Instead we have massive regulations of utilities so they can barely charge enough to maintain the infrastructure we have. It is so bad there are power failures and then the idiots in Washington decide we need to spend another trillion dollars on infrastructure to fix what they and their ilk have broken. Unbelievable. But that is what is happening, all thanks to the politicians and their willingness to regulate and tax everything that moves.

A pure free market would be so, so, soooo much better than what we have now. Not perfect, because human beings are not perfect, but in a free market we have choices. In a heavily regulated and taxed market we have mandates and orders and monopolies. News flash: the federal government is a monopoly.
 

Socalsp3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2021
Threads
22
Messages
596
Reaction score
612
Location
CA
Vehicles
Ioniq 5, Mach E
Country flag
Conjecture. Certainly it would have been harder, but I bet he would have gotten the right investors to support the company for long enough to be successful. And I seriously doubt the government subsidies on the cars Tesla was selling to rich people made any difference at all. People didn't purchase those cars because there was a $7500 handout from other taxpayers.
most tesla buyers are not rich. 7500 was a huge incentive for many buying model 3 and y. Tesla built momentum and got capital put into better factories and R&D to make their cars cheaper. Elon didn't complain one bit when his company was getting government assistance
 

Eraser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
358
Reaction score
504
Location
California
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E Premium RWD | SR
Country flag
I completely agree with Musk regarding government spending, it is completely out of control and wasteful. BUT I also agree that Musk has a dog in the hunt. Now that his company is well established (mostly due to government subsidies) he doesn't want his competition benefitting from the proposed government spending that would help all EV makers.

At the end of the day corporations do what they do, make more and more money year over year, period. They can and will do whatever is required to maintain that.

Most politicians in my opinion are always looking for short term wins they can hang their hats on in order to keep their job, or to spring board into a new one. In Binden's case neither really apply. This is more or less for his legacy and maybe to benefit the party.

As for Musk moving Tesla HQ to Texas, that is covered by my prior statement. As an individual I can't blame him at all. I've lived in California my whole life and the last couple years has me wanting to get the hell out of here too ?.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
6,068
Reaction score
8,014
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
most tesla buyers are not rich. 7500 was a huge incentive for many buying model 3 and y. Tesla built momentum and got capital put into better factories and R&D to make their cars cheaper. Elon didn't complain one bit when his company was getting government assistance
Long before there was a M3 or a MY, there were models S and X, which is what built the company and gave them the foundation to be able to produce a more affordable car. That is what I was referring to. Without the S and X, Tesla would never have made it. And nobody buying a S or X needed the money stolen from other taxpayers.

As far as the M3 and MY goes, I don't think it was a "huge" incentive at all. Most people lease or finance them, and the difference in the monthly payment is not that significant. If you cannot afford a M3 without the hand out, you should not be buying one.

Edit: oh, and anyone who can afford a new M3 is rich according to international standards. They certainly are not poor.
 

Socalsp3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2021
Threads
22
Messages
596
Reaction score
612
Location
CA
Vehicles
Ioniq 5, Mach E
Country flag
Long before there was a M3 or a MY, there were models S and X, which is what built the company and gave them the foundation to be able to produce a more affordable car. That is what I was referring to. Without the S and X, Tesla would never have made it. And nobody buying a S or X needed the money stolen from other taxpayers.

As far as the M3 and MY goes, I don't think it was a "huge" incentive at all. Most people lease or finance them, and the difference in the monthly payment is not that significant. If you cannot afford a M3 without the hand out, you should not be buying one.

Edit: oh, and anyone who can afford a new M3 is rich according to international standards. They certainly are not poor.
Tesla was a blip on the radar until they made M3 and MY. They've sold 100x more than MX and MS combined each year since 2018.

https://cleantechnica.com/files/2021/06/US-electric-vehicle-sales-Q2-2021-Cleantechnica-logo.png

Who said anyone with an EV was poor? Most people with an EV are not rich. Working class to middle class mainly. Joe blow plumber in the US is certainly rich compared to someone in the third world. What does that have to do with US tax policy?
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
6,068
Reaction score
8,014
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
What does that have to do with US tax policy?
It means the tax policy is immoral: taking money from people who cannot afford a M3 and giving it to those who can. It is wrong, and it should never have happened. And yet it continues to happen, and people continue to support it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SWO

bluestarct

Well-Known Member
First Name
Randall
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Threads
13
Messages
294
Reaction score
532
Location
San Diego CA
Vehicles
F-150, Highlander, Mazda 6 GT, Mach E FE
Country flag
Conjecture. Certainly it would have been harder, but I bet he would have gotten the right investors to support the company for long enough to be successful. And I seriously doubt the government subsidies on the cars Tesla was selling to rich people made any difference at all. People didn't purchase those cars because there was a $7500 handout from other taxpayers.
Tesla would have failed because it would not have been able to sell credits to Chrysler, Ford and other car manufactures to boost their mpg ratings. Without this government mandate on fuel ratings, Tesla would have failed in a free market.

Capitalism is great but unbridled capitalism is dangerous, unstable and doesn't promote long term sustainable growth.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
 




Top