End Is Nigh for One of Tesla’s Last Remaining Advantages

[Mirak]

Exclusivity of the Suoercharger network is coming to an end….

www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/20/elon-musk-says-tesla-will-open-its-chargers-to-other-electric-vehicles.html

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[RedStallion]

Elon: "We created our own connector, as there was no standard back then."
Reality: CARB adopted the J1772-2001 connector standard in 2001. The Roadster (2006) had a J1772-2009 adapter. Superchargers/Tesla's proprietary connector were introduced in 2012.

I think EU is not going to tolerate Tesla anticompetitive practices, not sure it will happen in US.

 

[snikt]

Elon: "We created our own connector, as there was no standard back then."
Reality: CARB adopted the J1772-2001 connector standard in 2001. The Roadster (2006) had a J1772-2009 adapter. Superchargers/Tesla's proprietary connector were introduced in 2012.

I think EU is not going to tolerate Tesla anticompetitive practices, not sure it will happen in US.

Isn't J1772 just AC though and lower power? Was there a DC fast charging standard?

CCS didn't come out until mid-2012 with actual cars supporting it until 2013-2014


The CARB regulation of 2001 mandated the usage of SAE J1772-2001 beginning with the 2006 model year. Later requirements asked for higher currents to be used than the Avcon connector could provide. This process led to the proposal of a new round connector design by Yazaki which allows for an increased power delivery of up to 19.2 kW delivered via single phase 120–240 V AC at up to 80 amperes. In 2008 the CARB published a draft amendment to Title 13 section 1962.2 that mandated the usage of the oncoming SAE J1772 standard beginning with the 2010 model year;[6] this was approved in 2012.[7]

 

[Stang68]

This discussion happening here already: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/tesla-to-open-charging-network.7928/

 

[RedStallion]

Isn't J1772 just AC though and lower power? Was there a DC fast charging standard?

CCS didn't come out until mid-2012 with actual cars supporting it until 2013-2014

Fact check: false.
CCS was published in 2011, " Seven car makers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) agreed to introduce CCS in mid-2012. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System

 

[snikt]

Fact check: false.
CCS was published in 2011, " Seven car makers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) agreed to introduce CCS in mid-2012. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System

Splitting hairs, the point was the previously mentioned J1772 was for AC charging.

CCS coming out in 2011 or 2012 is irrelevant, the Model S was announced in 2008 and was presumably under development before announcement (2006-2007 ?)

CCS coming out in 2011-2012, Car under development somewhere around 2006-2008 means it is somewhat reasonable for them to have developed their own DCFC connector

This happens all the time in tech, how many IEEE 1394 / Firewire devices do you see today?

 

[RedStallion]

Splitting hairs, the point was the previously mentioned J1772 was for AC charging.

CCS coming out in 2011 or 2012 is irrelevant, the Model S was announced in 2008 and was presumably under development before announcement (2006-2007 ?)

CCS coming out in 2011-2012, Car under development somewhere around 2006-2008 means it is somewhat reasonable for them to have developed their own DCFC connector

This happens all the time in tech, how many IEEE 1394 / Firewire devices do you see today?

Are Tesla forums too boring nowadays that you decided to troll here?

 

[HuntingPudel]

I’ve been a member on a standards board or two. There is a difference between the date of ratification (sometimes referred to as “publishing date”) and date of implementation. The phrase “coming out” is somewhat nebulous, so it could be construed as either the ratification or the implementation date. So, I think that the argument here is over semantics. The implementation was in 2012, the ratification in 2011.

 

[theo1000]

Some of us were there and don't have to read about it.

TSLA was part of the early CCS standard. Though they kinda joined late. The discussions were going on from 2008 until Musk decided to have another melt down and left the standard because the other manufactures refused to pay Musk for his 'claims' and also refused to adopt the TSLA design. IIRC the first TSLA charger beat the first CCS DCFC charger by about 4 months, and only because TSLA rushed it. The first batch of TSLA chargers were unreliable and were replaced. I believe the first CCS DCFC charger @ BMW was still there in 2018 or so. Even then there was discussion on leaving head room in the CCS design for higher charge rates.

The entire debacle reminds me of the Nissan Leaf folks. Nissan spent a fortune installing Chaedomo cables and paying manufacturers to include them. And yet the Leaf folks with Chaedomo in USA have been largely abandoned now. Same is going to happen to all these folks with the Tesla plug, all of them are going to find themselves frozen out when TSLA changes on a dime, probably 2 days after Musk departs, to switch to CCS. Due to codes the adapter dongle can not exceed 50kw, so all these high flying folks will be left with 50 kw DCFC vehicles. The ironies will be head shaking...

 

[snikt]

Are Tesla forums too boring nowadays that you decided to troll here?

Wasn't aware that discussing something was trolling? I will say though I've see so many nasty comments and grumpy people on here that I've not seen on other forums. This includes other brands and non car forums as well, don't know if this is just a Ford thing?

Some people get so hurt about this branding thing

 

[Mirak]

Wasn't aware that discussing something was trolling? I will say though I've see so many nasty comments and grumpy people on here that I've not seen on other forums. This includes other brands and non car forums as well, don't know if this is just a Ford thing?

Some people get so hurt about this branding thing

You’re not trolling. I like having Tesla peeps over here. Let’s all get along!

Now the question is, which will happen first…. EA gives me a station in Johnson County, Kansas, or Tesla lets me use one of the two superchargers there?

It’s a win-win for me, because I got the kickass MME with CCS!

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