BlueMach

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
549
Reaction score
716
Location
USA
Vehicles
Mach-E First Edition
Country flag
Most studies suggest yes, the grid can handle a huge transition to BEVs without issue, but time of use pricing will increase that number even more.

What gets me very excited is the potential of bidirectional charging. That's part of why I'm hesitant to buy the Mach-E outright and I'm leaning toward Ford Options - I want bidirectional charging as soon as possible.
 

trutolife27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Threads
127
Messages
3,266
Reaction score
13,885
Location
Bourbon Country.
Vehicles
Lincoln mkx , Ford f-150, Mache
Country flag
Most studies suggest yes, the grid can handle a huge transition to BEVs without issue, but time of use pricing will increase that number even more.

What gets me very excited is the potential of bidirectional charging. That's part of why I'm hesitant to buy the Mach-E outright and I'm leaning toward Ford Options - I want bidirectional charging as soon as possible.
The tech is changing faster than anyone thinks. Tesla's new battery cells will be old tech in 18 months. The grid can handle it, it is more about will the government and people change.

The quicker we can get this done the less worry later.
 

BlueMach

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
549
Reaction score
716
Location
USA
Vehicles
Mach-E First Edition
Country flag
The tech is changing faster than anyone thinks. Tesla's new battery cells will be old tech in 18 months. The grid can handle it, it is more about will the government and people change.

The quicker we can get this done the less worry later.
Exactly. That's why I'm leaning toward 3 years Ford Options rather than a finance - hopefully by 2024 we'll have plenty of EVs with bidirectional charging. Lucid will have it this year they claim, and so will Hyundai/Kia on their new EVs, but the utilities haven't caught up with pricing plans at least around here, so there's not a big carrot... yet. 2024 should be very different.
 


phidauex

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Threads
15
Messages
840
Reaction score
1,545
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2021 MachE 4EX, 2006 Prius, 1997 Tacoma
Occupation
Renewable Energy Engineer
Country flag
Nice overall summary. I like the key point that replacing all cars with electric immediately would only require a 30% increase in total generation - that makes it clear how attainable it is.

I'd add that we are also benefiting from the country getting more efficient over time - our household and commercial energy use is way down over the last 15-20 years. Sure, population has grown and some generation has been shut down, but being more efficient everywhere else paves the way for EV capacity.

My house uses very little electricity right now, about 140 kWhs/month, so while adding the MachE will more than double that (based on my estimated annual mileage) to ~320kWhs/mo. But if you compare that value to how much energy this property consumed 5 years ago when we bought it and started making it more efficient, the total consumption is still an improvement.

The peak demand issue will be tough, but good scheduling can resolve that. One thing to note is that your location will determine when the "best" time to charge is. In most of the lower 48 it will be night, as long as that area is idling large thermal generators (mostly coal) all night. However, as areas get higher solar penetration, the best time to charge will be the middle of the day, which would put more pressure on workplace chargers.

I was speaking with the resource manager for the utility cooperative on Kaua'i and he said he would LOVE for people to charge their EVs at noon - he is running the island 100% renewable from 10am to 2pm and still curtailing solar, so drink it up. Some areas on the lower 48 will start to reach those types of penetration in the next few years.
 

BlueMach

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
549
Reaction score
716
Location
USA
Vehicles
Mach-E First Edition
Country flag
Nice overall summary. I like the key point that replacing all cars with electric immediately would only require a 30% increase in total generation - that makes it clear how attainable it is.

I'd add that we are also benefiting from the country getting more efficient over time - our household and commercial energy use is way down over the last 15-20 years. Sure, population has grown and some generation has been shut down, but being more efficient everywhere else paves the way for EV capacity.

My house uses very little electricity right now, about 140 kWhs/month, so while adding the MachE will more than double that (based on my estimated annual mileage) to ~320kWhs/mo. But if you compare that value to how much energy this property consumed 5 years ago when we bought it and started making it more efficient, the total consumption is still an improvement.

The peak demand issue will be tough, but good scheduling can resolve that. One thing to note is that your location will determine when the "best" time to charge is. In most of the lower 48 it will be night, as long as that area is idling large thermal generators (mostly coal) all night. However, as areas get higher solar penetration, the best time to charge will be the middle of the day, which would put more pressure on workplace chargers.

I was speaking with the resource manager for the utility cooperative on Kaua'i and he said he would LOVE for people to charge their EVs at noon - he is running the island 100% renewable from 10am to 2pm and still curtailing solar, so drink it up. Some areas on the lower 48 will start to reach those types of penetration in the next few years.
The thing about additional generation is that if we really want to go zero-carbon, fossil-free, we need to simultaneously go all-electric for vehicles, while replacing all the fossil fuel power plants, while switching everything that uses natural gas (home heating, clothes drying, ovens, water heating) to that clean electricity.

It seems to me to be a huge opportunity for real innovation and massive massive growth to make this switch quickly.
 

RVAtom

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
198
Reaction score
303
Location
RVA
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E
Country flag
This video made me think of an issue that supposedly came up when some of the first tankless electric water heaters came out. Some spec builders put them in all of their houses in a neighborhood, but once most of the houses were occupied, they started tripping out transformers for the neighborhood when a bunch of families started washing dishes and running the dishwasher after dinner time. All of the houses were peaking at the same time and overloading the transformer that had been sized for a certain amount of diversity.

In a neighborhood like mine where most houses have 2 (or more with kids) cars in the driveway, some really smart staging may be required where different houses can take turns charging to keep this type of issue from happening. I know Juicebox supposedly communicates to some electric companies to help you charge at the "greenest" time. That is probably a building block for what could be useful afterwards.
 

Dmcerm

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
207
Reaction score
245
Location
Pennsylvania
Vehicles
2017 Ford Expedition EL, 2012 Mustang GT, 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis, 13 year owner/operator 1983 DeLorean DMC-12 - sold Nov. 2014
Occupation
Teacher
Country flag
"Pandora's Promise" ...
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Threads
63
Messages
6,729
Reaction score
13,758
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
Solar powered 2021 MME ER RWD & 2022 Corsair PHEV
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
I'm surprised he didn't talk about home solar with storage; that addresses the need for increased production AND alleviates the problem of synchronized demand from the grid. Of course, that creates the problem of producing solar panels and batteries, but over 10 to 15 years it is easily doable.

It just takes a determined effort, which means we have to take politics out of it.
 

phidauex

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Threads
15
Messages
840
Reaction score
1,545
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2021 MachE 4EX, 2006 Prius, 1997 Tacoma
Occupation
Renewable Energy Engineer
Country flag
The thing about additional generation is that if we really want to go zero-carbon, fossil-free, we need to simultaneously go all-electric for vehicles, while replacing all the fossil fuel power plants, while switching everything that uses natural gas (home heating, clothes drying, ovens, water heating) to that clean electricity.

It seems to me to be a huge opportunity for real innovation and massive massive growth to make this switch quickly.
I work for a Fortune 500 energy company and we've staked our future (and my personal career) on this promise. 24/7 carbon-free generation is closer than most people think, and the growth over the next few years in solar, wind and energy storage will dwarf the gains we've made in the last few.

The complex part, unfortunately, is that all this retooling will create a short-term carbon debt - it takes energy to make solar modules, wind turbine blades, and batteries, and there is no good way of getting around a short term increase in carbon output. But it is an investment in a longer duration with low carbon output over the next 30+ years.
 

Davedough

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
1,812
Reaction score
4,253
Location
West BYGOD Virginia
Vehicles
Mach E GTPE , Explorer ST
Occupation
Federal IT Sales Engineer
Country flag
I'm surprised he didn't talk about home solar with storage; that addresses the need for increased production AND alleviates the problem of synchronized demand from the grid. Of course, that creates the problem of producing solar panels and batteries, but over 10 to 15 years it is easily doable.

It just takes a determined effort, which means we have to take politics out of it.
And the added demand would breed competition which would lead innovation which causes the panels to naturally become cheaper, easier to make and install and more efficient in capturing and storing sunlight
 

Regularmache

Well-Known Member
First Name
Stephen
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Threads
15
Messages
963
Reaction score
1,314
Location
US
Vehicles
18 F150 Platinum, 18 Mustang GT PP2, 14 QX80
Occupation
Purchasing
Country flag
I'll take a F150 Powerboost Hybrid with the onboard 7.2Kw on board generator so I'm covered for power outages. I love all electric, but I fear the removal of energy competition to just electricity. Really eliminates allot of flexibility and competition for our Energy dollars. Energy Security is why thousands of us military have been sent to fight on foreign soil. Losing lives, becoming disabled, and wrecking families and we can't underestimate the power of Energy Independence. So we better be sure we go into this with eyes wide open. Don't forget all the PHD Intelligence and State Department, Think Tanks, all were certain somebody had Nuclear, Biological weapons at the whim of a certain Dictator.
It was never about any of that, it was to secure the world's Energy supply. We're not invading N. Korea and they have Nuclear weapons. What they don't have is a significant portion of the worlds energy supplies nor in a position to take control of them. Redundant systems are not a luxury, they are a necessity.
 
Last edited:

trutolife27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Threads
127
Messages
3,266
Reaction score
13,885
Location
Bourbon Country.
Vehicles
Lincoln mkx , Ford f-150, Mache
Country flag
I'll take a F150 Powerboost Hybrid with the onboard 7.2Kw on board generator so I'm covered for power outages. I love all electric, but I fear the removal of energy competition to just electricity. Really eliminates allot of flexibility and competition for our Energy dollars. Energy Security is why thousands of us military have been sent to o fight on foreign soil. Loosing lives, becoming disabled, and wrecking families and we can't underestimate the power of Energy Independence. So we better be sure we go into this with eyes wide open. Don't forget all the PHD Intelligence and State Department, Think Tanks, all were certain somebody had Nuclear, Biological weapons at the whim of a certain Dictator.
It was never about any of that, it was to secure the world's Energy supply. We're not invading N. Korea and they have Nuclear weapons. What they don't have is a significant portion of the worlds energy supplies nor in a position to take control of them. Redundant systems are not a luxery, they are a necessity.
Ice storm right now in KY. Few areas without power. Some fellow ford workers using their f-150 hybrid to run some items at their house. Comes in pretty handy I would say.
 

u/c

New Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
CA
Vehicles
Fiat 500e
Country flag
What gets me very excited is the potential of bidirectional charging. That's part of why I'm hesitant to buy the Mach-E outright and I'm leaning toward Ford Options - I want bidirectional charging as soon as possible.
I am waiting for the 2022 Outlander PHEV announcement on Tuesday. That car is expected to have 43 miles of electric range and bi directional charging. If they also add a 1500w AC outlet and 3500 lbs towing capacity, then I'll go for the Outlander. That would be the perfect car for camping and as back up power for my house.

If they fall short on expectations, then I'll go for the Mach E. I'll use Ford Options in case a better car comes along in 4 years. Hopefully Ford will still offer the $2500 incentive for Ford Options by that time.
Sponsored

 
 




Top