EV and Mach-e Myths and Fallacies

[Mach1E]

True. The battery basically supplies it's own oxygen once it starts burning, similar to a magnesium fire. If you hit it with water, it disassociates the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen and accelerates the fire dramatically. There's a video of an EV battery fire where the EV rolls into the water and it just keeps burning underwater.

Current firefighting strategy as I understand it (I've been out of the game for 13 years now) is to cover the EV with a large fire blanket to let it burn itself out without involving everything around it and protecting exposures with standard firefighting techniques (water). I have heard in Europe on ferries and tunnels that they shove the burning EV into a cargo container to let it burn in there and minimize spreading. It's easy to spray water onto the container to keep it cool while the EV burns.

Yup, I posted one such link to a video on post 36.

It’s crazy when you see it as we aren’t used to things staying on fire under water.

Makes sense though when you understand it’s a chemical reaction vs something just getting hot.

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[Teslaeata]

That red thing that’s man’s red desire (according to Jungle Book and I would know as I was an Akela) we call “fire” really is an exothermic chemical reaction!

 

[B177y]

Yup, I posted one such link to a video on post 36.

It’s crazy when you see it as we aren’t used to things staying on fire under water.

Makes sense though when you understand it’s a chemical reaction vs something just getting hot.

Love that video! Don't know how I missed it in your post...

Notice that there's almost zero smoke from the flames on the water, just a little bit of steam. Pretty sure that's the hydrogen and oxygen re-combining in a nice clean combustion reaction. If that was any petroleum or plastics from the car itself it would be thick black smoke.

 

[david_quick]

The three year battery thing comes from people needing to replace the 12v battery. The person asking the question is likely equating this with the traction battery which will likely outlast the car.

The most effective retort to this is that there is an 8 year, 100000 mile warranty on the traction battery and what manufacturer would offer that if they had to replace the battery after 3 years.

 

[ecoastkid]

I'm shocked I haven't read this one in this thread yet because several people have said it to me and it always makes me laugh.
"What are you going to do if the power goes out and you can't charge?"

I then ask them how they think a gas station is going to pump gas out of The tanks in the ground if the electricity is out.

I really don't want to get into the politics of it but we all know there is propaganda on both sides. Most people including us don't want to admit but we typically live in our echo chamber. In My conversations i usualy start by explaining where I stand on the politics and then the the tool and go down the list straightening out their misconceptions.

Honestly it's the same thing with the name. Far more people complain to me that it's "not a Mustang"

I tell them I could care less what it's called because it's a tool that worked very well for me and I go into why.

I forgot about this one.... People really think that every single battery at the end of its life goes to a landfill. They have very little concept of how recyclable these batteries are and that it's a money-making industry.

 

[Discwizard70]

I'm shocked I haven't read this one in this thread yet because several people have said it to me and it always makes me laugh.
"What are you going to do if the power goes out and you can't charge?"

I then ask them how they think a gas station is going to pump gas out of The tanks in the ground if the electricity is out.

I have heard this one before too, and have replied that not only do the pumps run on electricity, but also the fact that we can use home battery/generators to charge too, and even in extreme conditions we can use solar panels.... I mean yes, it will take a very long time, but it can be done. I don't, however, see very many Ice vehicles that will power your home if the power is out!

 

[Glen Boise]

But solar panels are well under 30% efficient at converting sunlight. Wind turbines are around 40%. That is just the physics of the devices, then count in the availability of sunlight and winds, oh, and transmission losses.

Note the difference though. You pay to fill your tank with gasoline. Start your car and around 60% released by exploding gasoline in your cylinders is dumped into the environment as hot air blown out of the radiator or tail pipe. Similarly, utilities pay for the dirty natural gas or dirtier coal burned to boil water into steam to turn turbines generating electricity. They use only around 40% of the energy released. The fossil fuel user is faced with constantly paying for a supply chain supplying the fuel they burn or explode.

You do not pay anything for the sunlight falling on the solar panel or the wind powering the wind turbine. That much of it is not converted into electricity is less of a problem. It is a factor in the capital cost of providing equivalent amounts of electricity generating capacity along with the cost of providing batteries to backup the solar panels and wind turbines. There is no continuing supply chain cost.
The transmission losses are similar once the electricity is generated.

 

[SonicBlue]

The three year battery thing comes from people needing to replace the 12v battery. The person asking the question is likely equating this with the traction battery which will likely outlast the car.

The most effective retort to this is that there is an 8 year, 100000 mile warranty on the traction battery and what manufacturer would offer that if they had to replace the battery after 3 years.

Yes. But the 3yr lifespan of the LVB is also a problem.

 

[SonicBlue]

I was at Volkswagen getting my Golf fixed (maybe) and had a long chat with the tech. I asked how many EV certified techs they had. He said since we don't sell EVs, none. Then he told me EVs will die off, and he would "never let my wife drive one..." I said "Why not?" He said she can barely keep the gas tank filled, let alone an EV charged. I said she'd have a "full tank" every day after charging it at home. No reply from the Tech.

There are still *a lot* of people out there with those early impressions....

Bonus points - next time someone says there is "no charging" ask them what an EV DCFC actually looks like. I bet they pass multiple stations each day but because they don't look like gas stations, they have no idea.

DCFC are super easy to spot. Just look for a cluster of EVs sitting for 30mins at a time with their drivers inside.

 

[SonicBlue]

Some of the complaints seem to be at least partial truths.

Every one of the OP’s complaints heard from others is at least a partial truth.

 

[SonicBlue]

The only credible "myth" left really is public charging. I read through a thread here recently where about half a dozen apps are in use to find a working public charger. Most people in the thread recommended using at least two to get different types of information. Ford decontenting their charging navigation protocols, the wildly variable charging rates from one charging service to another, adaptors for this type of connector or that type, and don't get me started on pre-conditioning. When this "myth" comes up in a conversation w/an ice owner, it's hard to debunk. You don't need an app or a special adaptor to go to a gas station and just fill up.

But it’s funny when the EV sunshine pumpers try to do exactly this. My favorite is “yeah, well stopping for 30 minutes every 150 miles is normal for me anyway.” Who knew that all EV drivers had the bladders of toddlers.

 

[david_quick]

Yes. But the 3yr lifespan of the LVB is also a problem.

That is pretty normal for the class of LV batteries used in these cars. I use similar ones in my trailers and equipment. It rare for them to last more than 3 years.

 

[areacode413]

Imagine the misinformation shared between horse lovers who refuse to accept the automobile.

 

[Mach1E]

I'm shocked I haven't read this one in this thread yet because several people have said it to me and it always makes me laugh.
"What are you going to do if the power goes out and you can't charge?"

I then ask them how they think a gas station is going to pump gas out of The tanks in the ground if the electricity is out.

That’s because this one is a myth about gas stations.

At least here in Florida, there is a LAW requiring back up generators for gas stations.

After having gone through quite a few storms since owning my Mach E including two direct hits, I can say one thing with absolute certainty:

A gas powered car is much better in case of emergency.

Not only could I not safely evacuate in my Mach E (not enough range to get to Georgia and no chargers available on the way), I couldn’t even leave it at home!

I had to park on the top of a parking garage (which was full of classic cars and Teslas). Glad I did because my house flooded with saltwater. Multiple homes who left their electric cars here caught fire.

After the storm, no power for a week, but there was plenty of gas and the gas stations were all open.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

That’s because this one is a myth about gas stations.

At least here in Florida, there is a LAW requiring back up generators for gas stations.

After having gone through quite a few storms since owning my Mach E including two direct hits, I can say one thing with absolute certainty:

A gas powered car is much better in case of emergency.

Not only could I not safely evacuate in my Mach E (not enough range to get to Georgia and no chargers available on the way), I couldn’t even leave it at home!

I had to park on the top of a parking garage (which was full of classic cars and Teslas). Glad I did because my house flooded with saltwater. Multiple homes who left their electric cars here caught fire.

After the storm, no power for a week, but there was plenty of gas and the gas stations were all open.

Hawaii is in Hurricane, earthquake and tsunami country. There is no law requiring backup power for gas dispensing. That is left to the free market to determine if it's worthwhile. The free market has resoundingly said no apparently. ?‍

The last big wind to hit here was in 2016. Power was out in several parts of the island for 10 days. You'd think there would've been a change. The good news is though we can't evacuate so we all get to stay put, ice or BEV. For the record, I'm at 4360 ft msl. No saltwater inundation is likely here. Part of our personal hurricane plan (on the way with a likelihood to make landfall) is to charge the mach-e up to 100% and turn off as many nonessential electrical items as possible to minimize the solar system battery hit. because HELCO will preemptively turn off our power.

Down by the coast it's another story. A lot of homes are quite near the coastline, and many have Teslas.

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