EV Charger Federal credit for 2022

RickMachE

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why would it be fraud if you're using it if they audit?
The tax credit rules are quite clear. The device must have been put into service by 12/31/21. OP did not put it into service in 2021, it's still in the box. OP needs to get an electrician to add the circuitry. So, it's not even a question that it wasn't in service in 2021.

While this wouldn't get noticed by the IRS probably ever, it's clearly tax fraud. Much of the tax code has requirements, and you attest that you filed a proper return. If you knowingly file a return with false information, as this would be, it's tax fraud. The fact that it may never be discovered doesn't make it not tax fraud.

If you steal $500 from your workplace, and they never notice, it's still a crime.

 

OWG

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why would it be fraud if you're using it if they audit?
Fraud
&c=7&rs=1&qlt=80&pcl=f9f9f9&o=6&cdv=1&dpr=2&pid=16.jpg

In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Fraud can violate civil law or criminal law, or it may cause no loss of money, property, or legal right but still be an element of another c…

Instructions for Form 8911 (01/2022)
Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit
Section references are to the Internal Revenue Code unless otherwise noted.
Revised: 01/2022


"Qualified Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property
Qualified alternative fuel vehicle refueling property is any property (other than a building or its structural components) used for either of the following.

  • To store or dispense an alternative fuel (defined below) other than electricity into the fuel tank of a motor vehicle propelled by the fuel, but only if the storage or dispensing is at the point where the fuel is delivered into that tank.
  • To recharge an electric vehicle, but only if the recharging property is located at the point where the vehicle is recharged.

In addition, the following requirements must be met to qualify for the credit.

  • You placed the refueling property in service during your tax year.
  • The original use of the property began with you.
  • The property isn’t used predominantly outside the United States.
  • If the property isn’t business/investment use property, the property must be installed on property used as your main home."

Instructions for Form 8911 (01/2022) | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)

It the in service as of date.
If it's sitting in a box waiting for the electrician to install the circuit, it is not in service.
If you file the 8911 and claim that it was in service, and it was not, that is claiming a tax credit you are not entitled to.
That is an "...intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, ...." See definition above.
 

Bjbjustin

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There's a difference between the letter and the spirit of the law...and this is a perfect example of that.
Claiming your assets are worth less than fair market value for tax purposes, then claiming they're worth more for insurance & credit evaluations is absolutely fraud.
Claiming you have a an 'in service' charging station that is in fact, in service is a whole different ball of wax than claiming you have an 'in service' charging station that doesn't exist.

I've also seen people post they're overstating the installed charger cost to take advantage of the full $1,000...which is fraud, and that has a substantially higher change of raising a flag.

And how would it even be audited what qualifies as the 'in service date?' The IRS doesn't know, nor are they experts. Maybe it goes by the permit approval date. But what if your local authority doesn't require permitting?0 Is the IRS going to evaluate your site and based on their observations rule what is deemed as 'in service'? What's their time worth to check $200?
I know they don't check our charitable contributions, or the clothing we donated. Hell, when you donate clothing, you actually get to fill out what the fair market value is for tax purposes - who's checking that?

And if after all of that you're really concerned this will bring up a flag and be audited...AND ruled as, AND pursued as "tax fraud"...what do you really think the penalty is? Is it a revision needed, is it a penalty, penalty with interest, or jail time? This has such a low probability of even being looked at for more than a second vs. what real, true, black and white tax fraud is - I can't believe this is even being brought up as a potential issue.
 

Maquis

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There's a difference between the letter and the spirit of the law...and this is a perfect example of that.
Claiming your assets are worth less than fair market value for tax purposes, then claiming they're worth more for insurance & credit evaluations is absolutely fraud.
Claiming you have a an 'in service' charging station that is in fact, in service is a whole different ball of wax than claiming you have an 'in service' charging station that doesn't exist.

I've also seen people post they're overstating the installed charger cost to take advantage of the full $1,000...which is fraud, and that has a substantially higher change of raising a flag.

And how would it even be audited what qualifies as the 'in service date?' The IRS doesn't know, nor are they experts. Maybe it goes by the permit approval date. But what if your local authority doesn't require permitting?0 Is the IRS going to evaluate your site and based on their observations rule what is deemed as 'in service'? What's their time worth to check $200?
I know they don't check our charitable contributions, or the clothing we donated. Hell, when you donate clothing, you actually get to fill out what the fair market value is for tax purposes - who's checking that?

And if after all of that you're really concerned this will bring up a flag and be audited...AND ruled as, AND pursued as "tax fraud"...what do you really think the penalty is? Is it a revision needed, is it a penalty, penalty with interest, or jail time? This has such a low probability of even being looked at for more than a second vs. what real, true, black and white tax fraud is - I can't believe this is even being brought up as a potential issue.
If it doesn’t bother your conscience to claim the credit for an in-service EVSE when it’s never been taken out of the box, then just do it.
This debate is getting ridiculou.
 

KevinS

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If it doesn’t bother your conscience to claim the credit for an in-service EVSE when it’s never been taken out of the box, then just do it.
This debate is getting ridiculou.
It's not even a debate. The law is very clear. The only debate here is people's ethics.
 


Socalsp3

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Fraud
&c=7&rs=1&qlt=80&pcl=f9f9f9&o=6&cdv=1&dpr=2&pid=16.jpg

In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Fraud can violate civil law or criminal law, or it may cause no loss of money, property, or legal right but still be an element of another c…

Instructions for Form 8911 (01/2022)
Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit
Section references are to the Internal Revenue Code unless otherwise noted.
Revised: 01/2022


"Qualified Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property
Qualified alternative fuel vehicle refueling property is any property (other than a building or its structural components) used for either of the following.
  • To store or dispense an alternative fuel (defined below) other than electricity into the fuel tank of a motor vehicle propelled by the fuel, but only if the storage or dispensing is at the point where the fuel is delivered into that tank.
  • To recharge an electric vehicle, but only if the recharging property is located at the point where the vehicle is recharged.

In addition, the following requirements must be met to qualify for the credit.
  • You placed the refueling property in service during your tax year.
  • The original use of the property began with you.
  • The property isn’t used predominantly outside the United States.
  • If the property isn’t business/investment use property, the property must be installed on property used as your main home."

Instructions for Form 8911 (01/2022) | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)

It the in service as of date.
If it's sitting in a box waiting for the electrician to install the circuit, it is not in service.
If you file the 8911 and claim that it was in service, and it was not, that is claiming a tax credit you are not entitled to.
That is an "...intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, ...." See definition above.
i tried it out with an ev to make sure it was working. There that satisfies all conditions
 

RickMachE

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There's a difference between the letter and the spirit of the law...and this is a perfect example of that.
Claiming your assets are worth less than fair market value for tax purposes, then claiming they're worth more for insurance & credit evaluations is absolutely fraud.
Claiming you have a an 'in service' charging station that is in fact, in service is a whole different ball of wax than claiming you have an 'in service' charging station that doesn't exist.

I've also seen people post they're overstating the installed charger cost to take advantage of the full $1,000...which is fraud, and that has a substantially higher change of raising a flag.

And how would it even be audited what qualifies as the 'in service date?' The IRS doesn't know, nor are they experts. Maybe it goes by the permit approval date. But what if your local authority doesn't require permitting?0 Is the IRS going to evaluate your site and based on their observations rule what is deemed as 'in service'? What's their time worth to check $200?
I know they don't check our charitable contributions, or the clothing we donated. Hell, when you donate clothing, you actually get to fill out what the fair market value is for tax purposes - who's checking that?

And if after all of that you're really concerned this will bring up a flag and be audited...AND ruled as, AND pursued as "tax fraud"...what do you really think the penalty is? Is it a revision needed, is it a penalty, penalty with interest, or jail time? This has such a low probability of even being looked at for more than a second vs. what real, true, black and white tax fraud is - I can't believe this is even being brought up as a potential issue.
Simple garbage.

Your 2021 tax return can't claim that something was in service in 2021 when it wasn't. The fact that it's in service in 2022 is irrelevant.

Similar issue came up with people that didn't get the car by 12/31/21, and hope to get it in the first few days of 2022, and want to claim it in 2021. At least one person did the paperwork dated in 2021, even though the car was not yet at the dealer. They've now realized they've lost the ability to deduct it in 2021.

The mindset you use in your discussion above is quite troubling, and shows that clearly you have a different level of what's right vs. what's wrong than I do. That's your business, but to espouse that others should commit tax fraud is simply wrong.
 

Maquis

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It's not even a debate. The law is very clear. The only debate here is people's ethics.
It appears you’re debating with yourself as to whether or not there’s a debate. ?
 

Socalsp3

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Simple garbage.

Your 2021 tax return can't claim that something was in service in 2021 when it wasn't. The fact that it's in service in 2022 is irrelevant.

Similar issue came up with people that didn't get the car by 12/31/21, and hope to get it in the first few days of 2022, and want to claim it in 2021. At least one person did the paperwork dated in 2021, even though the car was not yet at the dealer. They've now realized they've lost the ability to deduct it in 2021.

The mindset you use in your discussion above is quite troubling, and shows that clearly you have a different level of what's right vs. what's wrong than I do. That's your business, but to espouse that others should commit tax fraud is simply wrong.
it would be fraud if they require a registered ev at time of install. they do not. we're all waiting for delivery.
 

RickMachE

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One of the benefits of social media, unlike sitting at a bar counter talking to a stranger, is that the better forms of social media allow one to distance themselves from discussions they don't have an interest in pursuing, or with a party that they don't wish to have that discussion with. The Ignore function on this forum allows one to ignore an entire thread, or ignore a specific person for all their posts on the forum. Quite a nice feature ?
 
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kennethjk

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And BTW it’s never a good idea to go on a public forum and explain to everyone why you are doing something illegally and why it is not tax fraud.

Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole just doesn’t work.
 
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rohankumar

rohankumar

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phil

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Yes, knowingly claiming an improper credit or deduction is tax fraud.

Unethical? That's not so clear. In years gone by, most would agree that cheating on taxes was unethical. But as laws become increasingly obnoxious, respect for the law declines commensurately.
 

kennethjk

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This is a law that gives you something, so I would look at if differently and say it is unethical. It’s not taking something away from you.

 

 
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