EV in a hurricane evacuation

[dbsb3233]

Most highway rest stops have plenty of land around them. Power companies should be building large solar parks and charging facilities for large numbers of cars that is accessible from the rest area. The power companies are the ones positioned best to get the infrastructure in place and make charging a profitable proposition.

Not practical or cost effective though. They really need the grid to handle the huge variability in demand from EV charging. Battery storage can buffer that to some degree but that's wildly expensive to install at large scale.

Plus a large solar farm would need to sell the excess to the grid on the low demand days, to come even close to paying for the huge capital costs up front.

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[Blue highway]

This is the lamest argument. If we have X chargers at 5% market share, we’ll have 4X chargers at 20% market share. These are profit-making companies that build chargers to earn money. They will expand with the market for EV’s - as they already do.

Automakers project the number of EV’s they plan to build and sell well into the future, so charging companies can see the demand (and revenue) coming well in advance.

And we have several companies competing to dominate this new market. The most likely outcome is that they overbuild (like we saw with telecoms in the 90's or e-scooters in the last decade) in a frantic bid to be the winner.

hmmm the ratio of EVs to DCFC is going in the wrong direction (more cars per port) everywhere. At some point they may over build, but at the minute, they need to build a lot more just to maintain current ratios... this assumes they all work. As it turns out, ~30% or more are broken at any given time.

There is also the weirdness of enabling an evacuation route. (I-75, I-95, I-16 etc)... you don't need a lot of gas stations or chargers, till you need a lot of them because of an evacuation. These are not likely to ever be economical because the number of DCFC needed for an evacuation is never going to be supportable outside these times...

 

[J-orange]

Bottom line, to avoid the storm surge which is the most deadliest component of a hurricane. One needs only to go 10-20 miles inland for safety. Distances beyond that are for convenience or availability of hotel room or to stay with friends/family. There is a good chance the close place of refuge might not have power. If the storm does not do much damage you can easily return home. If your house is completely destroyed, then make a decision what your next step is.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

That's why you put a generator in the back of your EV with 10 gallons of gas.

 

[billy_at]

DC fast chargers will respond to the laws of supply and demand. It’s as simple as that.

There are numerous stories of charging networks announcing expansions - they can see that EV’s are sold out for years and demand is already baked in.

For example, EA seems to have deals with Target and Wal-mart. It is super easy to scale those up to increase their coverage, charge more cars and make more money.

Investors know that there is an upfront cost to building a charging station but there are countless industries that spend to build capital-intensive projects today that pay off indefinitely.

There’s nothing special about EV chargers - they will be steadily built out to match demand. Just the same way we built out the gas station network we already have.

 

[dbsb3233]

There’s nothing special about EV chargers - they will be steadily built out to match demand. Just the same way we built out the gas station network we already have.

Except that they generally lose money. That muddies the usual supply-demand dynamic by removing most of the market incentive to build them. It's being driven mostly by taxpayer funding and Dieselgate money at this point.

Supply-demand is still at play, but it'll just be slower to respond since it's so dependent on money distributed/credited by government entities. (Unless/until the actual price charged for DCFC goes up enough to cover the high costs, and thus creates a viable business case for it.)

 

[billy_at]

Except that they generally lose money. That muddies the usual supply-demand dynamic by removing most of the market incentive to build them. It's being driven mostly by taxpayer funding and Dieselgate money at this point.

Supply-demand is still at play, but it'll just be slower to respond since it's so dependent on money distributed/credited by government entities. (Unless/until the actual price charged for DCFC goes up enough to cover the high costs, and thus creates a viable business case for it.)

They don't lose money on an operating basis. Yes, they need to pay off their initial capital costs (like any other capital-intensive project, like building a retail store or a gas station), but they price their kWh's at close to twice what it costs to charge at home. That is a huge margin! They are not losing money on every charge.

Most EV owners charge at home and only use more expensive public chargers when necessary - because the public chargers are much more expensive. And the charging companies probably pay negotiated wholesale rates, too, so their raw costs are probably even less than what we pay at home.

 

[ctenidae]

This monster is supposed to start hitting the coast tomorrow morning. If you haven't left already, or aren't about too, it doesn't really matter what kind of car you drive.

Your evacuation plans should factor in the kind of vehicle you have.

If your plan is to wait to the last minute with an under-charged EV to drive 500 miles, you've made a terrible plan.

If your plan is to wait to the last minute with an empty gas tank to drive 500 miles, you've made a terrible plan.

If you will never evacuate until the last second, and you only have an EV, then you have both made a terrible plan and chosen the wrong vehicle.

No one vehicle or energy source is categorically better or worse than another - it depends entirely on your plan.

In case you need some help developing a plan (too little too late for Ian, of course), try this: Develop an Evacuation Plan (Hurricane Preparedness) | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (noaa.gov)

For all you folks in Florida and in the path - hunker down, stay safe, and we'll see you on the other side.

/Also, feel free to stay in Florida. The thing I dislike most about Florida is that it's filled with Floridians. And with people from New Jersey (my second biggest dislike!) ;-)

 

[ctenidae]

(Unless/until the actual price charged for DCFC goes up enough to cover the high costs, and thus creates a viable business case for it.)

Installed cost will come down first - the market will only pay so much per kW. If electrons are at parity with hydrocarbons demand for electrons and EVs to put them in will drop rather quickly. The capital cost up front has to come down for chargers to be profitable on their own.

 

[nvabill]

Ok My Evacuation Plan;
1. My F-150 with extendrd range tank always stays full, range 700 miles.
2. Attach trailer and load fully charged Mach E on same
3. Load extra gas cans and generator
4. Load dog and supplies
5. Hit the road
Yep, that about covers it. ?

 

[nvabill]

 

[nvabill]

 

[ChasingCoral]

This video is nothing but clickbait. He operates the truck wrong (doesn't use tow mode), is shocked when it doesn't behave the way he expects (or more likely the way he wants his viewers to expect), and is towing a non-aerodynamic load in the rain at 73 mph.

 

[ChasingCoral]

These folks know what they are talking about and make a realistic video.

 

[nvabill]

These folks know what they are talking about and make a realistic video.

Yeah, I tried to show each prospective.

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