dbsb3233

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I can't even believe we're entertaining charging time as a real thing when it comes to EVs. These companies should focus on making the car itself and standardize their battery cooling system designs, then team with battery makers to make the battery pack hot swappable. In reality, the winning team is going to be the one that can team with big oil to use their properties (gas stations) to house battery pack swap buildings. You drive your EV in, the robot hot swaps your battery pack. You drive away at 100%. In and out in 1 minute or less. To do this takes cunning and forethought and money. But if you do it, you kill any other brand making cars that charge at a station for 20-60 mins. They're dead.
That's problematic for compact vehicles that are designed to take advantage of every inch. That's why the batteries usually get built into the bottom frame now.

Plus they cost a fortune. And weigh a ton (or half a ton). It would take a pretty big operation to handle swaps, even if they were standardized. And frankly, it's not really necessary. BEVs will overwhelmingly be home-charge vehicles for people. And for that usage they're great just the way they are.

I have wondered about tat concept for large trucking though. Swap-out battery stations along fixed routes for commercial trucking could make some sense.
 

dbsb3233

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Keep in mind a battery pack with good range still costs $15k-$20k, and weights half a ton. Would almost be more practical just to swap out the whole car.
 

statseeker

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Most people in cities don't have the option to just park it at a charger all night. I don't have the electrical layout to support a charger without spending on it. We're still talking about spending minutes waiting to charge. It's still dumb. Why cant I just pull into the EV equivalent of a Chevron and get a battery swap and get going? That company will win.
 

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dbsb3233

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I'm cutting that 70% in half as only the 2nd car in the household though, so they still have an ICE to use on longer drives. Or PHEV. That will probably become the popular option for many of those that only have 1 vehicle.

BEV sales are only 2% to date because (other than Tesla) the 200+ mile BEVs that make it more viable have only started to come out now. And battery production is still limiting output. That should ramp up through the 2020's though.

The other problem, of course, is the high up-front price premium. But that's gradually coming down too. Even with tax credits, a Mach-e with desireable specs (Premium) is $45k+. That's a pricey vehicle.
 

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The way China is doing it makes more sense than how we in the "free market" United States are doing it. Lots of companies can make batteries lighter or more energy dense per unit of space and will over time, but once a battery is built into the car, you can't swap it without expense. Gas stations have 3 grades of gas, all that fuel has to be stored on site. Thousands of gallons weighing tons. What's your point? We could have 3 sizes or 4 sizes depending on overall vehicle size. What's the overall size difference between a Hyundai Tucson and a Ford Escape and a Toyota Rav4? Not much. What's the overall size difference between a Ford F-150, a Toyota Tundra and a Nissan Titan? Not a lot. Not enough to say we can't standardize sizes of batteries. The problem is that companies won't do it. China will. And will make us look foolish in the process.
 

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Keep in mind a battery pack with good range still costs $15k-$20k, and weights half a ton. Would almost be more practical just to swap out the whole car.
Hvb cost are dropping toward 100 bucks per kW. Stated by a number of auto executives
 

dbsb3233

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The point is people wanting an ICE for any longer drives.
 

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FWIW, this thread is exactly why the average Joe isn't shopping for a BEV .. it is just too confusing to understand charging. I really wish Ford or heck someone would just simplify it. Allegedly, Sync 4 will, I guess we'll see.
As someone whose new to EV charging it can be daunting with all this information. However, like some others have said it can be simple and most people won't need to know all these details.

One thing BEVs can hang there hat on is that Electricity is Electricity and doesn't have different grades/additives/seasonal blends, etc. Though most of us with ICE vehicles just put in whatever is recommended by the manufacturer.
 

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The way China is doing it makes more sense than how we in the "free market" United States are doing it. Lots of companies can make batteries lighter or more energy dense per unit of space and will over time, but once a battery is built into the car, you can't swap it without expense. Gas stations have 3 grades of gas, all that fuel has to be stored on site. Thousands of gallons weighing tons. What's your point? We could have 3 sizes or 4 sizes depending on overall vehicle size. What's the overall size difference between a Hyundai Tucson and a Ford Escape and a Toyota Rav4? Not much. What's the overall size difference between a Ford F-150, a Toyota Tundra and a Nissan Titan? Not a lot. Not enough to say we can't standardize sizes of batteries. The problem is that companies won't do it. China will. And will make us look foolish in the process.
Ok, let's game this scenario:
  1. I buy a brand new BEV and decide to go on a road trip
  2. On the last leg of that road trip my brand new battery with 1 charge cycle gets swapped out with 5 year old pack that has been abused and only has 80% of its original capacity
  3. Now when I get home and I charge at home, I find the range on my brand new car is 80% of what the manufacturer said it would be. Do I have a legitimate beef with the car manufacturer, and what are my options to redress the issue?
  4. I then have an malfunction wherein both motors overload/burnout and have to be replaced in my brand new car. After analysis, it seems the battery could have been the culprit. Should the BEV manufacturer have to pay for the repair under warranty? Should I? How do we prove whose fault it is?
When you are talking simple and inexpensive components like a propane tank, swapping makes sense because a brand new one is only $20-$30 and a used one is worth only $15 less so who cares? When you're talking THE CRITICAL PART of a $50,000 it is a really bad idea
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