Explained: The Thermal Problem with Mach-E

[silverelan]

@OutofSpecKyle does a bit of a technical explanation of what the thermal issues are with the MME and what GT's Unbridled Extend is doing in the background.

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[Lord Polymath]

I watched Kyle's review of the Mach-E, I think it was a FE and he really liked it. In this video it feels like a "let's all shit on any trim level except the GTPE". I guess coming from a "performance driving" perspective, yes the other models aren't as good, but damn...

 

[benk016]

I watched Kyle's review of the Mach-E, I think it was a FE and he really liked it. In this video it feels like a "let's all shit on any trim level except the GTPE". I guess coming from a "performance driving" perspective, yes the other models aren't as good, but damn...

Even in this video, he says the Mach E is great, unless you're talking about performance driving, and I believe this video was specifically discussing performance. So in that scenario, the Mach E isn't good at all compared to pretty much every other car.

Hopefully this is something they can tweak a little bit with updates. I'm hoping it was limited on purpose until they got more real-world data and will open it up later. Like they are doing with the charging curve and buffer size.

 

[kltye]

"Garbage" to drive, huh? That's pretty harsh (pun intended? ?). And is it me or did he insinuate no Mach-E owners are "performance car" enthusiasts? I test drove the RWD ID.4 and I thought it was way worse than the RWD MME I have, but hey, I guess I don't know anything.

 

[MG101]

Jumped around the video a little bit. Either that Kyle guy is insufferable or I'm just getting old.

 

[benk016]

"Garbage" to drive, huh? That's pretty harsh (pun intended? ?). And is it me or did he insinuate no Mach-E owners are "performance car" enthusiasts? I test drove the RWD ID.4 and I thought it was way worse than the RWD MME I have, but hey, I guess I don't know anything.

I think his problem with the Mach E is that its a mustang and should have better performance driving.

The ID.4 doesn't try to be a performance car. So he doesn't judge it as one.

 

[ZuleMME]

I dunno, I get the feeling his family bought something else and now he just bashes the MME. It's sad really because his personality is actually good at conveying details if he would just remain neutral.

 

[kltye]

I think his problem with the Mach E is that its a mustang and should have better performance driving.

The ID.4 doesn't try to be a performance car. So he doesn't judge it as one.

I suppose I've always been fans of products that suffer from terrible marketing (Microsoft/Windows Phone, anyone?) I think the problem with the MME is its very middle-of-the-road nature. It's more comfortable than the Polestar 2 (in terms of size) or MY (in terms of ride), but the ID.4 seems a bit more cushy. It's more performance-oriented than the ID.4, but isn't as good as the MY. It's cheaper than the MY and Polestar 2, but the ID.4 is cheaper.

I like balance - I like something I can DD, not pay a ton of money for, but is a bit more fun than the average car.

 

[highland58]

I had been thinking it might be good to get a GTPE and sell my FE, but watching Kyle's videos - including his video where he drives a GTPE, make me less interested in getting a GTPE. I don't drive like he does, so perhaps it makes little sense for me to own one, not worth the trouble and cost of that upgrade. One place we do agree is that most of his and my driving are in whisper mode.

I also wonder if some of the tire squealing on corners is due to understeer. In my Subarus I put a heavier rear sway bar which eliminated the tire squealing by making the steering more neutral.

 

[ChargedCheese]

I suppose I've always been fans of products that suffer from terrible marketing (Microsoft/Windows Phone, anyone?)

I had the Microsoft Zune...

 

[silverelan]

I had been thinking it might be good to get a GTPE and sell my FE, but watching Kyle's videos - including his video where he drives a GTPE, make me less interested in getting a GTPE. I don't drive like he does, so perhaps it makes little sense for me to own one, not worth the trouble and cost of that upgrade. One place we do agree is that most of his and my driving are in whisper mode.

I also wonder if some of the tire squealing on corners is due to understeer. In my Subarus I put a heavier rear sway bar which eliminated the tire squealing by making the steering more neutral.

I think Kyle is hard on the MME in general because it's badged as a Mustang and he judges it accordingly. In his opinion, the performance characteristics of a Mustang get lost on the 4X and the lower trims, but nearly all of his performance complaints go away in the GTPE. He actually speaks highly of the MME as a daily driver and even as a road tripper. He says the CA Route 1 is a monster of a road tripper having done 340 miles on a charge.

I think his problem with the Mach E is that its a mustang and should have better performance driving.

The ID.4 doesn't try to be a performance car. So he doesn't judge it as one.

Yup. The ID4 is super practical and overperforms when viewed through the lens of an entry-level crossover EV.

One of Kyle's performance complaints on the 4X gets solved with better tires and his gripes on the charge curve + cliff are in the pipeline for revision.

 

[Mach1E]

Summary-

The battery isn’t getting hot, it’s the other components and Ford is super conservative trying to prevent that.

Everything but the GTPE is garbage (from a performance driving perspective).

The GTPE is garbage if you hit the limits.


My thoughts? Honestly? Harsh but true. I kinda like that they aren’t glossing over things and just trying to paint it in the best picture possible (like most reviews).

This feels more like what people REALLY think and say when the cameras are off.

 

[Mach1E]

I had been thinking it might be good to get a GTPE and sell my FE, but watching Kyle's videos - including his video where he drives a GTPE, make me less interested in getting a GTPE. I don't drive like he does, so perhaps it makes little sense for me to own one, not worth the trouble and cost of that upgrade. One place we do agree is that most of his and my driving are in whisper mode.

I also wonder if some of the tire squealing on corners is due to understeer. In my Subarus I put a heavier rear sway bar which eliminated the tire squealing by making the steering more neutral.

Drive one and decide for yourself.

If you like your FE and want to go faster, you won’t be disappointed.

 

[ElectrifyCLT]

I think the biggest outstanding question is how much of the thermal issue is truly inverter/motors hardware versus software conservatism. It'd be interesting to know if it's hardware, packaging, or software limitations.

I agree with Kyle that the way the software deals with spirited driving (total current in/out of battery over a period of time) is silly. Unbridled extend should just blast all the cooling systems as hard as possible to keep things as cool as possible.

 

[benk016]

I think the biggest outstanding question is how much of the thermal issue is truly inverter/motors hardware versus software conservatism. It'd be interesting to know if it's hardware, packaging, or software limitations.

I agree with Kyle that the way the software deals with spirited driving (total current in/out of battery over a period of time) is silly. Unbridled extend should just blast all the cooling systems as hard as possible to keep things as cool as possible.

It is annoying, and having the power meter really highlights how bad it actually is. I live right next to a highway, and get on for 1 mile to get up to a main road to go into town. Just accelerating to 70 and driving at that speed for about half a mile, I start to get the gray marks in the power meter limiting power. Normal driving at 70mph shouldn't start to cause thermal throttling.

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