Mach1E

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Yes sir you are correct. Not a lot of people know about that. The whole experiment lasted about 1-2 years before they pulled the plug. Ford makes a great product but their logistical ability is no where near what it would need to be to pull off what Farley is saying. They need to quit shooting for the stars and start actually trying to fix the massive amount of issues they already have.
Yeah this is a fair point.

I get it that some dealers (and a lot of salespeople) suck and suck the fun out of the car buying experience.

But do you really think the manufacturer (who is beholden to shareholders to make a profit) will be any better?

Reminds me a lot of the (fill in the blank) industry that people donā€™t like and want the government to take overā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ until we forget how terrible the government is atā€¦ā€¦ everything. All you need is one trip to the DMV for a reminder.
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Mach1E

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I try to bring this up whenever the dealership debate shows up because not everyone here owns a boat.

The boat industry has had manufacturer direct and dealer sales side by side for decades. You have a choice.

Dealer model- cheaper, more inventory boats and more places to buy, service, test drive and trade in. Significantly shorter lead times.

Manufacturer direct- the opposite of the above. 2 year wait for orders.

The benefit of direct is that you get a nicer (but more expensive) and much more customizable boat.

Which gives better customer service? Varies greatly by manufacturer and dealer. Some great some terrible.

But the customer experience has nothing to do with a dealer or direct model. Itā€™s more the people youā€™re dealing with. Again, some great some terrible.

I have purchased both and had good experience with both models. The worst part of the direct is the extremely long wait and inconvenience of service. Dealer picks our boat up for service. Manufacturer makes us ship it to them.

Bottom line? The grass isnā€™t always greener.
 

yngwenli

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Yes sir you are correct. Not a lot of people know about that. The whole experiment lasted about 1-2 years before they pulled the plug. Ford makes a great product but their logistical ability is no where near what it would need to be to pull off what Farley is saying. They need to quit shooting for the stars and start actually trying to fix the massive amount of issues they already have.

This sorta is affecting all car makers...Look at some of the BWM i4 forums, there are complaints of features removed as well and I think there was a post here saying the touch screen was completely deleted from a BMW build.

As a Ford sales consultant/employee, you probably see a lot of crap honestly, but it's just simply very hard to be impartial as well being a Ford employee. I'm sure this is true for all workers in their own jobs/companies.

Ford has a long way to go trying to turn a mega tanker, but hopefully, Farley is the guy (or at least a better guy) to do it vs. that furniture guy who insulted Tesla saying they were so stupid and no one would ever need to build your own battery plant:

https://jalopnik.com/ford-might-start-making-its-own-batteries-to-create-mor-1845679421


Being able to admit you were wrong and turn the ship is key (need humility/less pride issues).

Good products sell. Tesla has no trouble selling the MY at 63k minimum with no fed tax benefit. Ford has all MME and F150s spoken for.

Logistics/supply chains is messing nearly all auto makers currently.
 
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RedStallion

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Iā€™m missing something. Why is this only for EVs? Seems like an artificial distinction. Is the idea that you have to start somewhere and if people are comparing to the Tesla experience then perhaps Ford should start with their EVs?
Because you can only efficiently use this model if you have a small sales volume, a high demand and low competition, so people are willing to buy at MSRP without a delay. Direct sales in a normal market require stable prices and complete order automation so as to avoid hiring a large staff and everything that it entails. Ford definitely wouldn't want to run a dealership business themselves.

When the demand and supply are stable and equalized, with many competitors on the market, dealerships serve as a buffer that allows manufacturer so sell on large scale to a small number of dealerships rather than managing retail sales to the millions of customers. In normal situation dealerships take upon themselves the risks related to financing, insuring, selling, managing inventory, dealing with customer issues.
 

yngwenli

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Yeah this is a fair point.

I get it that some dealers (and a lot of salespeople) suck and suck the fun out of the car buying experience.

But do you really think the manufacturer (who is beholden to shareholders to make a profit) will be any better?

Reminds me a lot of the (fill in the blank) industry that people donā€™t like and want the government to take overā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ until we forget how terrible the government is atā€¦ā€¦ everything. All you need is one trip to the DMV for a reminder.

All true, the only benefit in this car example vs the DMV/government is you can buy another brand with a car and it's not required (no one needs a MME/F150 to survive, etc...). There are other brands. If Lucid treats folks better, we can buy/choose a Lucid/Rivian/Porsche/BMW, etc...

Can't say the same for the DMV, our electricity provider/gov monopolies.

There are some folks of course who will never buy a Ford now after their experience here, but at least there are other brands to go to.
 


Mawby

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How about this as a model . . .
  • Dealers have one of each model available on the lot for test drives in popular trims supplied by the manufacturer - which means no more inventory tying up their $$
  • Dealers get a standard fee from the manufacturer for sale - they can cut into that if they want to sell below MSRP, but cannot sell above MSRP.
  • Dealers continue to offer service, warranty service, and salespeople still offer education and knowledge about the cars along with test drives for the consumer.
  • Dealers can cut down their footprint of huge lots - cars are ordered other than the "Demo" models that can be sold when a replacement comes in after so many miles.
Smart dealers will figure it out. Dinosaurs will become extinct.
Known strategy is to do it on lot many of same model and config. Custom ordering for the rest.
 

yngwenli

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I didn't really get that from the article. I don't think it'll ever be possible to force ALL customers to only buy online, but having that option (no haggle/delivered car), if a consumer chooses is a plus IMO to get away with dealing with the 2nd least trustworthy job in America and the stress folks go through with buying a car normally. It's probably the #1 complaint on these boards honestly (the buying experience).

I feel having a physical location is a benefit for returns/service/etc, but it'll be how Ford works/structures the dealership network so all parties can see it as a benefit. I also wouldn't be against having to drive further since some dealerships may close, but what other job hasn't been inpacted (manufacturing, outsourced IT/law, you name it).

They probably won't need as many "salespeople" since EVs have mostly been all selling themselves and anyone doing research knows more than the salesperson anyways.
 
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blkadr08

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Dealerships have argued for decades that the reason they exist isn't to sell the vehicles, it's to support and service them - they are there for "our benefit" as customers, to protect us from Big Bad Manufacturing after the sale as well as to be able to "focus on the little guy car buyer" with the "great local support".

Either they service the vehicles still, and do a good job at it, or they die. They are going to have all of their arguments thrown back at them and will either need to actually do what they say they do, or they will go away. Either result is a good result.

p.s. there's whole threads on this argument on here already and I've already written my dissertation on another one of them, so I won't repeat myself. But there's not really any new arguments or discussion points around the car franchise dealership model at this point.
Going to be an interesting time for auto dealerships in the US. As stated in the quote, the goal of the retail sales end of a car dealership is (a) to get cars on the road and, thus, into the service department and (b) to keep the lights on in the dealership
.
And, although maintenance of EVā€™s is way lower than ICE vehicles, the difference is essentially in LUBE oil and filter services
which are only part of a service departmentā€™s profit picture.

Warranty work will probably not change much, and EVā€™s out of warranty will break just as often as ICE vehicles.
 

Bodyshopguy

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Farley also promised me a frunk button and BlueCruise. Still waiting. Soā€¦ Iā€™ll believe direct sales when I see it.
I have Blue Cruise and wouldn't want a frunk button... they followed the BMW type release... with a double pull... I think it's great... and safe... I'm in the business... a hood flying open is super scary... you can't see where you're going... and it wouldn't just be the hood damaged, it will bend the hinges, fenders and break the windshield... I love the car... any complaint I have would just be petty... it's a great car....

29706149-8d91-48c7-b5f0-782a0ff9dc6f.jpg
 

jhalkias

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I have Blue Cruise and wouldn't want a frunk button... they followed the BMW type release... with a double pull... I think it's great... and safe... I'm in the business... a hood flying open is super scary... you can't see where you're going... and it wouldn't just be the hood damaged, it will bend the hinges, fenders and break the windshield... I love the car... any complaint I have would just be petty... it's a great car....

Ford Mustang Mach-E Farley: Ford is Going to 100% Online, Fixed-Price Sales For EVs 29706149-8d91-48c7-b5f0-782a0ff9dc6f
Valid point, but I would assume that any "frunk button" in FordPass would be disabled while the car is in any gear but Park.
 

yngwenli

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Fixed price is a good idea so dealers like this donā€™t continue playing with customers

https://electrek.co/2022/06/07/ford-dealer-doubles-price-f-150-lightning-electric-pickup-truck/

I don't follow the F150 EV forum, but has there been ADM on ordered/reserved cars for the F150? The article didn't say if it was an ordered car and they just jacked it up, but I'm guessing it was a cancelled buyer.

I don't mind the ADM as much for cancelled orders since if they don't put an ADM, we can mostly bet some other buyer will probably add it and resell it right away which is just as bad IMO sorta like a ticket scalper. What they should do is maybe instead of the ADM, offer it to the existing reservation holders to speed up delivery if that buyer wants.

Clearly, with the ADMs, Ford is also leaving $$ on the table and sorta why Tesla/Ford raised prices.
 
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Rfehl62

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This sorta is affecting all car makers...Look at some of the BWM i4 forums, there are complaints of features removed as well and I think there was a post here saying the touch screen was completely deleted from a BMW build.

As a Ford sales consultant/employee, you probably see a lot of crap honestly, but it's just simply very hard to be impartial as well being a Ford employee. I'm sure this is true for all workers in their own jobs/companies.

Ford has a long way to go trying to turn a mega tanker, but hopefully, Farley is the guy (or at least a better guy) to do it vs. that furniture guy who insulted Tesla saying they were so stupid and no one would ever need to build your own battery plant:

https://jalopnik.com/ford-might-start-making-its-own-batteries-to-create-mor-1845679421


Being able to admit you were wrong and turn the ship is key (need humility/less pride issues).

Good products sell. Tesla has no trouble selling the MY at 63k minimum with no fed tax benefit. Ford has all MME and F150s spoken for.

Logistics/supply chains is messing nearly all auto makers currently.
So Ford has always had these issues. The current supply chain issues just do a great job of highlighting them. Ford makes a great product but their current model puts most of the responsibility on dealers. They simply could not handle taking that over. At least not in the next 10 years.
 

1969Camaro

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I hope every dealer goes bankrupt.
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