Feasibility of aftermarket heat pump

[Skoolbus]

Any engineers out there want to comment on the feasibility of adding a heat pump to the MME in the aftermarket? What systems would have to change? Would it be similar in complexity and cost to adding a supercharger/turbo to an ICE? Understood that there would be significant development costs. There’s a nice big open space under the hood!

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[MyLittlePony2022]

I am not an engineer but I stayed at Holiday Inn once. How is this for a heat pump.

 

[SWO]

I'm pretty sure that retrofitting a heat pump would be a big ordeal. I've seen conflicting reports on how well they work as well, particularly in very cold temps.

 

[JamesStew71]

Any engineers out there want to comment on the feasibility of adding a heat pump to the MME in the aftermarket? What systems would have to change? Would it be similar in complexity and cost to adding a supercharger/turbo to an ICE? Understood that there would be significant development costs. There’s a nice big open space under the hood!

build in an inline heater element, its not difficult , most of us have water heaters or diesels with block heaters/ same concept

 

[AKgrampy]

I'm pretty sure that retrofitting a heat pump would be a big ordeal. I've seen conflicting reports on how well they work as well, particularly in very cold temps.

My guess is there is no way period to retrofit one and if there is it would not be worth the cost. You always hear about the nightmare costs for some military equipment but when you design something to milspecs and put it thru the testing and the military only wants 20 of them then it is expensive. I think you would have that kind of issue assuming it could even be done.

 

[Nklem]

Much too difficult I am afraid, here is a comparison pic of my 2019 Hyundai without and the Canadian model with under the hood. Not only do you have the hardware issues you have the BCM and control/power issues. BTW the range difference between these two identical cars with and without a heat pump is like 5- 10 actual miles In winter. No range test that I actually know of showed any difference.

 

[Nklem]

But just to discuss the ”significant“ performance gain for a heat pump. In a car application, the performance is typically 2 to 1 or a COP of 2 (I also do 3 below). Let’s assume 2, So for every 1 unit of heating kWh in, you get 2 kWh of heat out. The Mach E heater is 6 kW/hr in size , so theoretically the heat pump would use 3 KW/hr. Let’s take a 20 degree F trip for 3 hours at 45 MPH, so a 135 mile journey. let’s assume the Mach E uses about 2.6 mi/kWh in these conditions without heat or 1/2.6 kWh/mi. Let’s say you want it warm, so for this trip the Regular heater uses 3 KW/hr and the heat pump uses 1.5 kW/hr. So, for the 135 mile trip, to drive only you will use 52 kWh (1/2.6*135), to heat without a heat pump, you will use 9 kWh, with a heat pump 4.5 kWh. So 61 KW without heat pump, 56.5 kWh with. Now the overall mi/kWh without is 135/61=2.21, with 135/56.5=2.4. For a Select that’s a range difference of 150 vs 163 miles gain of 13 miles. For a premium it’s 195 vs 211 miles, gain of 16 miles. That’s if you get full battery capacity in the cold, but we all know you do not. Also this assumes constant heat but we know the heat will cycle, so the real gain actually less. Let’s say the heat pump is 3:1 or COP of 3., the Trip would use 3.0 kw for heating, 55 kWh total, 135/55, that’s a mi/kWh of 2.45 and range of 167 (17 miles more) for Select and 216 (21 miles more) for a Premium. Not crazy additional range numbers for extra weight, potential reduced reliability and system complexity.

Here is a quote from an automotive heat pump maker….“In field tests with a compact electric car, MAHLE has demonstrated that its ITS [Integrated Thermal System] reduces the loss of cruising range substantially, especially at cold ambient temperatures,” MAHLE said in a press release. “The original vehicle equipped with conventional electric heating started with a cruising range of 100 kilometers. When the vehicle was equipped with the ITS, the cruising range increased to 116 kilometers.”

 

[JSeis]

A down jacket and hot coffee is a lot cheaper.

 

[ripperAZ]

Inspiring idea. I was considering a 1500 degree pizza oven for the back hatch

Seriously just enjoy the cost savings ....stop trying to make it into a motor home

Best of luck!??

 

[Kabish]

I honestly don't understand why the MME did not come with a heat pump... I feel like it not having one is like buying a new electric device of some sort and it using micro USB. Maybe there is a logical reason for it, but it seems like heat pumps are pretty handy to have.

 

[DarkMatter89]

Decent heat pump explanation.

 

[SWO]

A down jacket and hot coffee is a lot cheaper.

My wife actually keeps a hiking down throw stuffed under the console for trips in winter where I keep the thermostat at 60 while driving. Combined with the seat heater she's completely comfortable.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

Much too difficult I am afraid, here is a comparison pic of my 2019 Hyundai without and the Canadian model with under the hood. Not only do you have the hardware issues you have the BCM and control/power issues. BTW the range difference between these two identical cars with and without a heat pump is like 10 actual miles In winter.

Can I ask what the epa range on those is supposed to be? Can’t extrapolate the difference without a baseline. Thank You

 

[Nklem]

I honestly don't understand why the MME did not come with a heat pump... I feel like it not having one is like buying a new electric device of some sort and it using micro USB. Maybe there is a logical reason for it, but it seems like heat pumps are pretty handy to have.

In my opinion only, the Mach E was designed and benchmarked around a 2016-2018 or so Tesla, no heat pump. Tesla did not switch until 2021.

 

[KevinS]

In my opinion only, the Mach E was designed and benchmarked around a 2016-2018 or so Tesla, no heat pump. Tesla did not switch until 2021.

And Tesla has been having issues with them, despite all of their EV experience.

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