Golfer

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-charging-stations-every-50-miles/7561566001/

These are rules for obtaining federal subsidies to build new charging stations. Here are some of the big takeaways.

1. Chargers must be at 1 mile, or less, from a highway
2. No closed networks. Tesla would have to create chargers for everyone to qualify.
3. No App requirements allowed. Chargers, built with subsidies, will operate more like a gas pump. You don’t need an app to pay and you don’t need a subscription.
4. At least 4 DC fast chargers per station.
5. Mandates chargers every 50 miles along highway

 

Mach-E VLOG

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roamtheworld

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Making charging infrastructure like gas is helpful. Locations in big states like Texas could really use some improvement. But many big states don’t have gas stations every 50 miles. Been in WY lately? Recent stories have shown how much cheaper Tesla chargers are vs the competition. I’m happy using a Tesla charger if available. .
 

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Making charging infrastructure like gas is helpful. Locations in big states like Texas could really use some improvement. But many big states don’t have gas stations every 50 miles. Been in WY lately? Recent stories have shown how much cheaper Tesla chargers are vs the competition. I’m happy using a Tesla charger if available. .
The 50 mile thing is guidance and not a rule. But they want to make sure funding doesn't go to 4 different stations right next to each other while leaving huge gaps elsewhere along the interstate.

Tesla SCs aren't cheaper in many cases. That is an assumption that many make but it isn't always true. And if Tesla has to add a credit card reader and CCS ports to their chargers, I imagine that there will be some type of surcharge for non-Tesla users.

Here's the Tesla SV Owners Club complaining about SC prices. When I looked into it last spring, I found that EA was a lot cheaper in California. Here is Colorado, they are about the same price if you use the EA member rate.

 

roamtheworld

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Good information. My point is open all charging up to everyone and I’ll still be happy to pay even slightly higher price for better location while on the road. Convenient locations is the main issue in my opinion.
we live in TX but moved from CO and are visiting right now. CO is super friendly to EVs but still hard to find non Tesla chargers in Denver or Colorado Springs. I’ve seen at least 6 Mach Es in springs this week.:D
 


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Making charging infrastructure like gas is helpful. Locations in big states like Texas could really use some improvement. But many big states don’t have gas stations every 50 miles. Been in WY lately? Recent stories have shown how much cheaper Tesla chargers are vs the competition. I’m happy using a Tesla charger if available. .
I'm guessing that Tesla will charge higher rates for non-Tesla. Much higher. This will subsidize the folks who got lifetime free charging a few years ago from Tesla. I have a friend in SoCal who bought two when this was available. Nothing is free, we will end up paying for that.
 

Blue highway

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I hope they get built fairly "soon" because a fast charger at least every 50 miles makes road tripping require a lot less thought and less risk if a needed charger is broken.

Looking at some West to East cross country trips and there are some big gaps in the "fly over" states. Doable but one dead station will ruin your day because there are no reasonable options.

From my perspective, we don't need cars with 350 miles of range, we need chargers closer together.
 

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Good information. My point is open all charging up to everyone and I’ll still be happy to pay even slightly higher price for better location while on the road. Convenient locations is the main issue in my opinion.
we live in TX but moved from CO and are visiting right now. CO is super friendly to EVs but still hard to find non Tesla chargers in Denver or Colorado Springs. I’ve seen at least 6 Mach Es in springs this week.:D
I've found it to be the opposite. There is 1 SC in Colorado Springs and 5 CCS DCFC stations. In Denver, there are about a dozen SC stations but over 30 CCS DCFC stations.

Now on some road trips, there are definitely some areas where I'd happily pay to use a SC when there are gaps in the CCS network.
 

RickMachE

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I'm guessing that Tesla will charge higher rates for non-Tesla. Much higher. This will subsidize the folks who got lifetime free charging a few years ago from Tesla. I have a friend in SoCal who bought two when this was available. Nothing is free, we will end up paying for that.
No.

Why not?

Because to get the federal dollars, the government will ensure that Elon can't screw the consumer. Why? Because he has a history of doing wacko things. They will make it ironclad, because of his instability.

Not unstable? Witness Twitter.
 

Mach-E VLOG

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One interesting tidbit in the proposal document -- stations must have a Plug and Charge option at stations that receive funding. ChargePoint has been very critical of the current Plug and Charge standard and says they will not implement it due to security concerns. And many have figured that Tesla wants a chunk of this federal funding, but would they be able to add the Plug & Charge option easily for non-Teslas? In countries where they have opened up the SCs, they require customers to activate charging with the Tesla app.
 

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Patrick and Liv,

Interesting document - they mandate data exchanges, CCS, ADA compliance, but still allow for companies to charge differently for brands - such as Tesla surcharging non-Tesla cars. Ford could do the same. It's going to make this interesting to be able to use a 3rd party app to get real-time pricing. I am wondering if we will soon see time of use (TOU) costs like the utilities have implemented?
 

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No.

Why not?

Because to get the federal dollars, the government will ensure that Elon can't screw the consumer. Why? Because he has a history of doing wacko things. They will make it ironclad, because of his instability.

Not unstable? Witness Twitter.
Rick,

I read through the proposed regulations and the rules you are suggesting are not there! It's wide open for brand pricing, time of use, and all kinds of other shenanigans. The only requirement is that this data be available to 3rd parties via an API.

Twitter is a complete mess, and I appreciate Elon forcing some transparency. Where the instability comes to play is the product mix in Tesla and their $12,000 full self driving that the vast majority of customers bought but don't have!
 

Mach-E VLOG

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Patrick and Liv,

Interesting document - they mandate data exchanges, CCS, ADA compliance, but still allow for companies to charge differently for brands - such as Tesla surcharging non-Tesla cars. Ford could do the same. It's going to make this interesting to be able to use a 3rd party app to get real-time pricing. I am wondering if we will soon see time of use (TOU) costs like the utilities have implemented?
I'm guessing that we will. A lot of Tesla owners are starting to figure out that EA is always 31 cents per kWh in CA where peak SuperCharging rates are 58 cents per kWh from 11am to 9pm and charging at home is 54 cents per kWh from 4 to 9pm.
 

Blue highway

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Patrick and Liv,

Interesting document - they mandate data exchanges, CCS, ADA compliance, but still allow for companies to charge differently for brands - such as Tesla surcharging non-Tesla cars. Ford could do the same. It's going to make this interesting to be able to use a 3rd party app to get real-time pricing. I am wondering if we will soon see time of use (TOU) costs like the utilities have implemented?
In the short run, I'd expect different pricing by brand for a wide range of reasons... but I'd still be happy to have some of the gaps closed. I expect some forum poster heads to explode because of pricing which will be entertaining :)

In the longer run competition will bring the price variance down.
 

roamtheworld

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I've found it to be the opposite. There is 1 SC in Colorado Springs and 5 CCS DCFC stations. In Denver, there are about a dozen SC stations but over 30 CCS DCFC stations.

Now on some road trips, there are definitely some areas where I'd happily pay to use a SC when there are gaps in the CCS network.
Just looked at EA and only in South CO Springs. If you are staying in downtown or east side that’s way out of the way. Also looks like EA chargers are about 40-50 miles apart as you go north into Denver area but again not always in the best spots we just stayed near Rockies stadium and didn’t see one charger. I know they are around but not like gas stations. Maybe a little better in future since they can be in parking garages unlike gas pumps.
It’s taken 50+ years to get the gas infrastructure in place they should just leverage that with chargers. NM does that along the highway it makes better sense in cities to do the same.
They are still building gas stations everywhere except CA just make them support a couple of DC chargers for each.

 

 
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