Filling a gas-powered vehicle can still be cheaper than charging an electric one

[Timelessblur]

A better charge network will make BEVs “not as bad” for road trips.

It won’t make them “best.”

To be best they must:
1. Have the longest range
2. Refuel in the most places
3. Refuel for the least money
4. Refuel in the fastest time

And the title for those go to a PHeV. 3 is the only debatable one, depends on the weather and DC charging costs.

BEVs have a very long way to go to become best for road trips.

I will not disagree they will not be the best for Road trips vs ICE but I will argue that degree of how much worse is EV vs ICE is. People over blow the 5 min gas and go. Most people if you really are honest your gas stops are a lot longer than 5 mins. 20-30 mins are pretty normal with bio needs (food and bathroom) and EV charging will extend it. Yes their are the road warriors who do it fast but most of us stop longer than you think on a road trip.
Add up the time you are at the pump, go into pay, bathroom and back to your car. You will be surprised it is longer than you think. If you had kids good luck at doing that in under 30. Plus stopping ever 3 hours is not a bad thing for ones health.

Now yes ICE will be faster BUT you are having to have an ICE for those few times you need to drive long distance. That means all the other draw backs and cost of an ICE for what less than 5% of the time.

Remember BEV is going to win out for anything sub 250 miles and only then do PHeV start taking over.

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[val8728]

They have not taken into account that most EV owners charge in their garages or at their homes for low rates. Some charge for free. This last point is what attracts many new users that already have solar energy systems installed.

Wouldn't waste my solar energy on it - I get over 10 cents a Kw for outgoing. Get it cheaper at night less than 8 cents a Kw.

 

[0t60-3.5]

I see the ONLY way for mass adoption and acceptance to be REPLACEABLE BATTERIES. (swappable)

It would be like swappable LP gas tanks for gas grills. Pull up to a "jiffy-lube" type station, they lift up the car, pull out your battery, insert the next one, and you're done in five minutes, all juiced up. Maybe there would be options for capacity, but all / most BEVs would have standard pack dimensions.

The drained packs would be trucked off daily to a mass charging station next to the nuclear reactor, coal plant, wind farm, hydroelectric dam, etc. They charge overnight and trucked back to replenish inventory across the region. Distribution through logistics would be more cost effective and efficient, not infrastructure. I heard it's $250K - $500K to install a DCFC charging station. That's crazy expensive.

There'd be little need for immense infrastructure and costs for DCFC charging stations distributed throughout a region. Better for apartment dwellers & major urban areas. Of course, still have possibility to charge at home. But otherwise, distribute power via replaceable batteries and smart logistics.

 

[ChargedCheese]

Nobody in their right mind would get an EV if they can't charge at home. Or they can't get an ID4 or ioniq5 and charge at ea for free.

I must be crazy

I would never get an EV if I couldn't charge at home, even if it was free....no way. Love just plugging in when i get home, it charges later at super off peak hours and then warms the cabin and preconditions the battery be for I leave for work. What more could I ask for?

I've got 7500 miles on my Mach-E... I've paid $50 in total energy costs (1 road trip). That free charging at work sure does stink. That $0.007/mi is brutal.

 

[0t60-3.5]

That free charging at work sure does stink. That $0.007/mi is brutal.

My only suggestion is we should never think of as something provided for free as being "free" entirely. Someone is paying for it. There is a cost, for sure. The free to consumer may discontinue in the future, actually, so likely can't count on that to continue in perpetuity. It could be seen as a perk by employers/employees, but should be included as it is a cost.

 

[tfitzgex]

Nobody in their right mind would get an EV if they can't charge at home. Or they can't get an ID4 or ioniq5 and charge at ea for free.

I only have a 110 outlet available at home, so I have to charge at public charging.

Fortunately I only pay 25 dollars a month for a subscription to charge at DCFC network in my area(Portland General Electric's Electric Avenue)
Yes, someday when I move in to a house that has a garage, or the ability to plug in to a 220, that will be great.
I drive 60 miles round trip every single day, An EV was a no brainer for me. It would have been nice to have more free EA charge time, but Ford made it up by building a more attractive fun to drive car than the ID.4 and the Hyundai/Kia cars.

 

[HuntingPudel]

To be honest, I have put less money into the tank of my K/5 Blazer in the last 4 months than I have put into the battery of my MME. Then again the Blazer has travelled less than 3 miles in that time. ???

 

[jeffdawgfan]

the article raises some important questions.

Does the author realize that the edge case they cite is unreal and therefore the thrust of the headline and article are completely misleading?

Or are the author and editors morons?

Please Note. This is from Fox News. They have a penchant for.....twisting the truth to suit their viewers. Since the lawmakers of a certain party get big donations from big oil that is what they want to push rather than EV's. I am not bashing a particular party. I used to belong to that particular party until recent events changed my point of view.

 

[RyZt]

The EV2-A 12 a.m.-3 p.m. rate is now 24 c/kWh, not 18c as you said.

Wow. You’re right. The new rate went into effect on 3/1/2022. https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2 (Sch).pdf

 

[EVS]

Wow. You’re right. The new rate went into effect on 3/1/2022. https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2 (Sch).pdf

OMG, the summer peak rate is $0.56/kWh. With 5% tax, ~$0.60/KWh. The lady on the phone only told me the winter rate of 43c/kWh! I may have to switch back to the non-EV rate plan. Can't ask the family to stop having dinners on time.

The article says this:

At the higher rate, charging the entry-level version of the Ford Mustang Mach-E -- which has a starting price of $37,495 after federal tax credits are deducted and a range of 247 miles between charges -- would cost $2,100 annually for 15,000 miles of driving, compared to $1,500 at 31 cents and just $650 in an average home.
..
Not everyone buys an electric car with the expectation of saving money, but it's important for anyone looking to cut costs to do the math on their particular situation before they write a check. As they say, your mileage -- and local energy prices -- will vary.

That's a rate of 14c/mile at high, 10c/mile at mid and 4.33c/mile at low end. Here in CA, those seem very reasonable for even charging at home. 4.33c/mile ( = 13c/kWh) seems almost impossible, unless someone has a lot of solar power already installed to charge the car.
Even at off-peak EV2 rates, I will be at 9c/mile, with 3 miles/kWh. Not too different from a gas car.

 

[Orangefirefish]

OMG, the summer peak rate is $0.56/kWh. With 5% tax, ~$0.60/KWh. The lady on the phone only told me the winter rate of 43c/kWh! I may have to switch back to the non-EV rate plan. Can't ask the family to stop having dinners on time.

The article says this:


That's a rate of 14c/mile at high, 10c/mile at mid and 4.33c/mile at low end. Here in CA, those seem very reasonable for even charging at home. 4.33c/mile ( = 13c/kWh) seems almost impossible, unless someone has a lot of solar power already installed to charge the car.
Even at off-peak EV2 rates, I will be at 9c/mile, with 3 miles/kWh. Not too different from a gas car.

Just left CA and yeah the rates sucked. The EV rate meant cooking at regular dinner hours with electricity was a huge burden. And I agree, it doesn’t make much financial sense if people can’t charge at home but if we are talking about widespread adoption that is something we will have to address. The reality is that a lot of people can’t charge at home. And even those that can, rates vary. Everyone’s situation is different. I charge at home and when doing the initial pre purchase math I never thought of myself much of a road-tripper, ie two-three road trips per year didn’t seem like much, but after owning the Mach E and paying more attention to it, the percentage of total miles driven that were road trips were actually much higher than I expected, simply due to the fact that road trips are so many miles, vs short, frequent commuting miles. So, total road trip miles were more like 40-50% of total miles driven. So in reality I’ve DCFC’d much more than I anticipated, and yes the substance of the article isn’t exactly wrong, in the wrong circumstances it can cost as much as gas. I don’t care though, it wasn’t mainly a cost thing for me, it was mainly a fun factor thing.

 

[1969Camaro]

I've seen this story about ICE being cheaper at least 10X today either news feeds, FB and here, It's simple arithmetic. If your paying a boat load for KW. Stick with what you got. For me, I can fill up my electron tank for less than 4 bucks off peak and I only charge off peak.

To be very honest, long trip anxiety is still bothering me and if I could have found a RAV4 Prime I would have bought that. 90% of my trips are less than 40Miles per day. No Primes to be had here in AZ. Lots more MME's available. Prime has a greater than 400 mile range which is all I would drive in a day.

 

[Lynsey]

What is your utility company? PGE rates are 25c-44c, more like 30c-33c minimum , as charging EVs will push it into higher tiers. Some of the existing time-of-use plas that benefitted solar homes are being retired. Take a look at these new rates from April. There is also 5% tax on top of this.
Did you install a separate electric meter to get this low rate and how much did that cost? TIA!

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/comm...rates-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing.pdf

I have SDG&E. They have several different pricing plans to choose from for EVs.

 

[Mach1E]

I will not disagree they will not be the best for Road trips vs ICE but I will argue that degree of how much worse is EV vs ICE is. People over blow the 5 min gas and go. Most people if you really are honest your gas stops are a lot longer than 5 mins. 20-30 mins are pretty normal with bio needs (food and bathroom) and EV charging will extend it. Yes their are the road warriors who do it fast but most of us stop longer than you think on a road trip.
Add up the time you are at the pump, go into pay, bathroom and back to your car. You will be surprised it is longer than you think. If you had kids good luck at doing that in under 30. Plus stopping ever 3 hours is not a bad thing for ones health.

Now yes ICE will be faster BUT you are having to have an ICE for those few times you need to drive long distance. That means all the other draw backs and cost of an ICE for what less than 5% of the time.

Remember BEV is going to win out for anything sub 250 miles and only then do PHeV start taking over.

Yup, we are saying the same thing.

I look forward to the day when owning a BEV isn’t a compromise.

Energy density and charging speed. Solve those two things and we are there.

Unfortunately physics isn’t our friend currently for either.

 

[FLmac]

OMG, the summer peak rate is $0.56/kWh. With 5% tax, ~$0.60/KWh. The lady on the phone only told me the winter rate of 43c/kWh! I may have to switch back to the non-EV rate plan. Can't ask the family to stop having dinners on time.

The article says this:


That's a rate of 14c/mile at high, 10c/mile at mid and 4.33c/mile at low end. Here in CA, those seem very reasonable for even charging at home. 4.33c/mile ( = 13c/kWh) seems almost impossible, unless someone has a lot of solar power already installed to charge the car.
Even at off-peak EV2 rates, I will be at 9c/mile, with 3 miles/kWh. Not too different from a gas car.

OMG! I’m traumatized by your peak summer rates! That’s just crazy. How much is your electric bill every month? I’m on a standard rate and it’s about 4 times lower than your highest and your lowest is still double mine! I’d be switching back to fire and candles, but then I’d probably burn the state down on accident!