For everyone saying the Mach E recalls are ridiculous...

DevSecOps

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I was just having the discussion, no need to get all defensive...
I'm not sure where you got that I'm being defensive. You commented on my comment and I commented as a reply. That's a conversation.
 

ctenidae

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Well with all that said ot appears if Ford is going to rollout a software fix for this problem, it looks like the vehicle performance will be sacrificed to overcome the contactor problem. That woukd be the only way to reduce overheating of contactors. The only true way to fix it without reducing performance would be to replace the contactors with one's that could handle the current load and the heat generation.
I don't agree that a software fix automatically reduces performance. It certainly can, if handled in a ham fisted way, but it doesn't have to. Better power management and temperature controls can manage it, I bet. Unless it's such a massive physical design flaw that you have to cut power dramatically, software doesn't have to be a wet blanket.
 

ElectrikPony

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Despite the Toyota recalls I have more faith in Toyota properly handling the recalls vs Ford. I don't think a company acknowledging a recall should be a slide against the company, it shows accountability.
 

voxel

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I don't agree that a software fix automatically reduces performance. It certainly can, if handled in a ham fisted way, but it doesn't have to. Better power management and temperature controls can manage it, I bet. Unless it's such a massive physical design flaw that you have to cut power dramatically, software doesn't have to be a wet blanket.
There are logs on the Premium AWD ER Mach-Es power curve during acceleration.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/driving-dynamics-and-charging-data-files.8473/

At the time.. I thought these looked pretty normal but honestly now they are a bit on the high side now (200+ kW for 4-5 seconds) that I have 9+ months of ownership with various EVs.

I personally only see 200+ kW on a Model Y for a brief moment (half second?) when hard accelerating. 90 - 100 kW is about the norm when pushing hard on the throttle. An ID.4 peaks at 150 kW for half a second according to detailed logs by an ID.4 on vwidtalk going from 0 to 80mph.

I can't imagine the amount of amps that a GTPE is chewing through when hard accelerating. Ford went for brute force power over any sort of efficiency. If I had to redesign a 2023/2024 model I'd use smaller less power hungry motors. I can see why Ford went their path because the RWD Mach-E is one of the fastest in the class (RWD EV) so they simply stuck a motor in the front for AWD.
 


RedStallion

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Socalsp3

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you'd think after a hundred years they figured how to mount a wheel on a car 🤷‍♂️
 

rcechinel

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I was just having the discussion, no need to get all defensive, this is a forum after all. I agree any manufacturer with a recall is at fault no matter how you look at it, it’s their product. My question was about how is at fault if it wasn’t manufactured by Ford. For example, Ford doesn’t make their own batteries and share actually share batteries with other car manufacturers (albeit with different specs). So if those batteries start spontaneously combusting who’s fault is it? Ford will obviously be responsible, but do they have their own legal recourses to recoup financial loses. Again, just a question, I’m not arguing this is the case so try not to get too offended. We get it you’re very helpful to all and all knowledgeable.


Gotcha, you’re right, Ford is the worst, selling my MME.
Dude, the reality is it doesn't matter. You bought from Ford, Ford is potentially screwing you to save money. Will you go after Ford or their supplier? The buck stops at Ford, end of story.

Remember the old saying from used car sellers? "We screw the other guy and pass on the savings to you". We are the other guy...
 

ctenidae

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There are logs on the Premium AWD ER Mach-Es power curve during acceleration.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/driving-dynamics-and-charging-data-files.8473/
Well, there goes my afternoon - thanks...

But seriously, you're right - those scatter plots are odd. The mix front/back doesn't, on the face of it, make much sense. The diagonals I get - consistent ratio between front and rear drive, but the ones that are 100% rear are weird. I'd expect to see a cluster around some particular outputs, like max power, to throw all the juice through the rear motor.

Could be they have enough real-world data to tweak it a bit - the lower output 100% rear points make me think there are some places to blend in more front to take some of the load off the rear contactors. Perhaps the contactors were tested for multiple WOT events, and didn't account for those lower-kW pulls. I dimly recall something about tuning EDM cuts with voltage - maybe the lower voltage spark are blowing off chunks of contacts that can get fused back in.

A software fix that re-orders those scatter plots to reduce some of the wear on the contacts wouldn't hurt performance overall, just change the front/rear bias during "normal" driving. (warning: made up numbers ahead) A run at 5kW through the rear could be reprogrammed to be 3 kW rear and 3 front, to get the same power down to the road.

My guess is there's some team lead at Ford who is very happy to see the end of having to say "we don't have enough data yet" every time he's asked when he's going to fix this thing.
 

ctenidae

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Found On the Road, Dead seems to fit
F'd Over Rebuilt Dodge maybe not so much
 

PilotMark

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We'll be selling/trading in our 2008 155,000 miles prius when we get the Mach e in hopefully Aug/Sept. The Prius has been great. One wheel bearing is all that has been out of the normal maintenance. And I think Toyota is a good/great car company. Wheels falling off. This is not part of a new technology. I think all toyota cars have wheels. There should be NO learning curve in keeping the wheels attached to a Toyota.

I expect good engineering from Ford. I would be really on the wrong side if the Mach E's wheels fell off. I hope for not too many issues with a new model car but I expect some. I bought the first year scion FRS and there were some first year issues with that car and again it was not new tech. pretty basis car the FRS. A little team work with Subaru and Toyota via Scion.

I think the tech in the Mach e and I expect some issues. And yes I also expect Ford to find answers for any issues that show up.

Can't wait until it's actually here.
 

JohnS1111

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https://www.thestreet.com/investing/toyota-has-more-bad-news-for-vehicle-owners

Toyota is doing recalls to fix quality too - apparently a lot of them - but damn, the quick engineering to many recalls hurts brand image.

I wonder if VW will get hit by it's fair share of those recalls too this time. Usually, they are very careful as every car is built on a platform and for example when there is something like a new transmission, you may see it first in a brand like Skoda and when it proves itself then it gets promoted to an Audi or VW on the same platform. This time ... you can't release an electric car for testing on the cheap brands first to do a consumer test. So, this is a first out of the gate for them too.
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