Blue highway

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I don't understand why Ford chose not to sell sedans and is also choosing not to sell a next gen Ford Edge. They might not have been volume leaders but their stats show that ICE vehicles are continuing to sell well. At least sell for a few more years to offset the cost of EV investment.

Short sighted.
sedans are dead in the US from a profitability standpoint.
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Dustus

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They say in the article that they are in the same position with sales numbers and losses that Tesla was in 2015-16. Tesla has gone on to increase volume and is seeing huge profits. Ford it walking that same path and hopefully gets to the same destination. Just going to take a few years unless the market really does increase to quickly that Ford can get there quicker.
 

SpaceEVDriver

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sedans are dead in the US from a profitability standpoint.
That's not entirely true.
The top three best selling vehicles in the US in 2022 were pickup trucks.
Number 4 was a crossover SUV (Rav4).
Number 5 was the Toyota Camry (a sedan).
Of the top 25 best selling vehicles, five (20%) were sedans. Seven of the top 25 were sedans if you count the Model 3 and Model Y. In sales volume, sedans accounted for 22% of the best selling vehicles.
 

roamtheworld

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It is ALL about transparency first, and as pointed out manufacturing improvements and costs. As noted already using others to produce is one of the largest expenses in an EV the battery is the biggest hit to profit.

I think they know what needs to be improved for the current offers (Mach E and Lightniing) and the next models will see costs reduced. The major difference between Ford and Tesla as an example is Agile methodologies being used for production and continuous improvements.
The cost will go down when you control more of the vehicle parts and make more products.

Throw in making products with higher quality will reduce costs and improve profits.
If you look at any other mainstream auto company Ford is in the lead. All are working hard and its a real race.
 


The Black Horse

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I'm certain they aren't loosing money for investing too much in their dev team too much because the cars technology is bull-crap. (not sure if i'm allowed to curse on hear)
 

Blue highway

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That's not entirely true.
The top three best selling vehicles in the US in 2022 were pickup trucks.
Number 4 was a crossover SUV (Rav4).
Number 5 was the Toyota Camry (a sedan).
Of the top 25 best selling vehicles, five (20%) were sedans. Seven of the top 25 were sedans if you count the Model 3 and Model Y. In sales volume, sedans accounted for 22% of the best selling vehicles.
sales does not equal profitability. That is why the Fusion was cancelled. It sold well but did not make money. Trucks and SUVs make money in the US.
 

maktas1973

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Also good news it appears Lithium prices are coming down the mountain, with LFP should take a bite out of future losses
 

Guss-E 2021

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I tried to find a GAAP prepared income statement for the Model E division but everything is consolidated. I wanted a more granular look at the numbers particularly non-cash items. On an elevated basis there was $14 billion in depreciation/amortization expenses. So EBITDA was $18 billion vs EBIT of $4.7 billion. Auto makers have huge amounts of plant assets so I knew the depreciation figures had to be significant.

Typically, with GAAP prepared income statements, you do not account for CAPEX in your gross and net profit calculations. So building new factories would not contribute to the operating loss. I believe someone noted that the GPM was negative. That right there could account for the bottom line result. Ford is still paying too much for parts and materials without the benefits of economies of scale. Really would like a look at that income statement.

FYI the corporation had a net increase in cash of $4.6 billion. I did not look at the balance sheet though. Oops, yes I did 😁 YOY cash went from $20.5 billion to $25.1 billion at the end of 2022.
 

MachKet

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I tried to find a GAAP prepared income statement for the Model E division but everything is consolidated. I wanted a more granular look at the numbers particularly non-cash items. On an elevated basis there was $14 billion in depreciation/amortization expenses. So EBITDA was $18 billion vs EBIT of $4.7 billion. Auto makers have huge amounts of plant assets so I knew the depreciation figures had to be significant.

Typically, with GAAP prepared income statements, you do not account for CAPEX in your gross and net profit calculations. So building new factories would not contribute to the operating loss. I believe someone noted that the GPM was negative. That right there could account for the bottom line result. Ford is still paying too much for parts and materials without the benefits of economies of scale. Really would like a look at that income statement.

FYI the corporation had a net increase in cash of $4.6 billion. I did not look at the balance sheet though. Oops, yes I did 😁 YOY cash went from $20.5 billion to $25.1 billion at the end of 2022.
Great post, those thinking the loss is just an investment need to take the homer hat off. Ford has a steep hill to climb and they have to do it quick
 

dbsb3233

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Seventeen years PLUS a worldwide pandemic/economic crisis.
And $billions from selling emissions credits to other manufacturers to avoid the government's massive fines.

Lots of artificial help that kept Tesla afloat long enough to finally turn a profit.
 

4sallypat

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Gee, have you seen how corporate taxes write off losses ?

It's a great way to reduce taxes owed against a profit making division.

I write all my small business expenses off my taxes and I don't even have a corporation....
 

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sedans are dead in the US from a profitability standpoint.
Source? I find it hard to believe they're not profitable. They might not be profitable as SUVs but if they're still making money then it wouldn't hurt to continue to sell them to generate revenue to invest into EVs.
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