ab13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
584
Reaction score
469
Location
California
Vehicles
Rav4 Hybrid
Country flag
They say in the article that they are in the same position with sales numbers and losses that Tesla was in 2015-16. Tesla has gone on to increase volume and is seeing huge profits. Ford it walking that same path and hopefully gets to the same destination. Just going to take a few years unless the market really does increase to quickly that Ford can get there quicker.
Here is the actual chart from Tesla 2021 annual report. They started making profit they could bank at the end of 2021.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKDtez6XMAYggpa.jpg:large
Sponsored

 

Hammered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Threads
26
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1,093
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 PB F150, MME GTPE
Country flag
And $billions from selling emissions credits to other manufacturers to avoid the government's massive fines.

Lots of artificial help that kept Tesla afloat long enough to finally turn a profit.
It's not artificial help. It's playing the rules for what they're worth, the exact same move every single large business does.

I don't think any taxpayer funds should subsidize anything, period, at all. Least of all the not-so-green industries calling themselves 'green'. Let the market do what it does and stop taking money from one to give to another. If it can't live in the market on its own, it's not viable.
 

kdonnel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Threads
25
Messages
860
Reaction score
1,222
Location
Metro Atlanta
Vehicles
2022 CA Route 1, 2020 Bolt EV
Country flag
Source? I find it hard to believe they're not profitable. They might not be profitable as SUVs but if they're still making money then it wouldn't hurt to continue to sell them to generate revenue to invest into EVs.
It takes investment to make that small profit.

Businesses will stop the part of their business that is making a small profit to invest in a part of their business they believe will make a larger profit. Closing a part of the business that makes 5% to use that money to invest in a part that will in the future make 15% is a better use of that money.
 

Blue highway

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 15, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
2,104
Reaction score
3,236
Location
Oregon
Vehicles
Mach E Premium SR RWD
Country flag
Source? I find it hard to believe they're not profitable. They might not be profitable as SUVs but if they're still making money then it wouldn't hurt to continue to sell them to generate revenue to invest into EVs.
really? this is news to you?

we exited the low margin, or unprofitable sedan business and that turned out to be the right decision because the benefits we’ve seen from that decision were great,” - Jim Farley

https://fordauthority.com/2022/08/f...r-will-exit-other-vehicle-segments-if-needed/

https://www.detroitnews.com/restric...ings-dont-expect-return-to-sedans/5883904002/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-plan-will-drop-most-u-s-sedans-idUSKBN1HW2UH
 

LincolnLuvr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Threads
47
Messages
770
Reaction score
524
Location
VA
Vehicles
currently car-less, but hope to get a MME!
Country flag
Maybe I'm just bitter that Ford stopped making sedans. :)

But my point was that every dollar counts, and sedans, albeit low margin, maybe could have still contributed to Ford's bottom line.
 


Blue highway

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 15, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
2,104
Reaction score
3,236
Location
Oregon
Vehicles
Mach E Premium SR RWD
Country flag
Maybe I'm just bitter that Ford stopped making sedans. :)

But my point was that every dollar counts, and sedans, albeit low margin, maybe could have still contributed to Ford's bottom line.
I understand that point of view, but the accountants think differently. o_O

One of the under currents here is the auto companies getting ready for the Chinese.

The Chinese are already in Europe and will be in North America soon. Legacy auto, (Ford, GM, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes etc.) can not compete on price with them. The same way the Japanese took big market share in the 70's, the Chinese are likely to do the same in the next decade.

Combine increased competition with the need to transition to electric means there is no room for break even cars.
 

4sallypat

Well-Known Member
First Name
Pat
Joined
Mar 30, 2022
Threads
62
Messages
1,958
Reaction score
1,409
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
'23 MME delivered May '23 + '22 Lightning July '22
Occupation
Network Tech
Country flag
I understand that point of view, but the accountants think differently. o_O

One of the under currents here is the auto companies getting ready for the Chinese.

The Chinese are already in Europe and will be in North America soon. Legacy auto, (Ford, GM, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes etc.) can not compete on price with them. The same way the Japanese took big market share in the 70's, the Chinese are likely to do the same in the next decade.

Combine increased competition with the need to transition to electric means there is no room for break even cars.
And don't forget the Vietnam with their breakthrough EV in the US: VinFast.
 

woody

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
778
Reaction score
675
Location
CO
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E, Chevy Bolt
Country flag
Ford Mustang Mach E will be immediately profitable, says Ford CEO

Ford’s newly revealed Mustang Mach E will start producing profit “on vehicle number one,” said Ford CEO Jim Hackett in an interview with Bloomberg after Ford’s Sunday Mach E reveal event.

Nov 19 2019 - 9:00 am PT, Jameson Dow
electrek

voodoo math? - Tesla, the media, Ford, etc. Employed by some or all and some others when they are selling or it serves their interest.....
 
Last edited:

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,298
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Ford Mustang Mach E will be immediately profitable, says Ford CEO

Ford’s newly revealed Mustang Mach E will start producing profit “on vehicle number one,” said Ford CEO Jim Hackett in an interview with Bloomberg after Ford’s Sunday Mach E reveal event.

Nov 19 2019 - 9:00 am PT, Jameson Dow
electrek

voodoo math? - Tesla, the media, Ford, etc. Employed by some or all and some others when they are selling or it serves their interest.....
It probably was on track to be in 2019. Then COVID hit... And supply chain delays... And chip shortages... And shipping delays... And 4-decade high inflation.
 

Hammered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Threads
26
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1,093
Location
SE US
Vehicles
2022 PB F150, MME GTPE
Country flag
Ford Mustang Mach E will be immediately profitable, says Ford CEO

Ford’s newly revealed Mustang Mach E will start producing profit “on vehicle number one,” said Ford CEO Jim Hackett in an interview with Bloomberg after Ford’s Sunday Mach E reveal event.

Nov 19 2019 - 9:00 am PT, Jameson Dow
electrek

voodoo math? - Tesla, the media, Ford, etc. Employed by some or all and some others when they are selling or it serves their interest.....
Stealerships made out like bandits.....
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
54
Messages
9,298
Reaction score
10,814
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE, 2023 Bronco Sport OB
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Stealerships made out like bandits.....
Because Ford didn't react fast enough to raise MSRPs enough when the market was super hot (like Tesla did), yes. Leaving most of the market premium for the dealerships to cash.
Sponsored

 
 




Top