Stickboy46

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Yeah I'm surprised how much stuff the GT doesn't come with actually. The 360, the glass roof, etc.

This feature is a huge plus though:
Another improvement: The stop-and-go adaptive cruise control will remain active for 30 seconds after coming to a stop, instead of requiring driver reactivation after three seconds of stoppage.
This is amazing as part of the autopilot on Tesla. Normal traffic in town can be handled without doing anything. Even when you sit at a light for a while. As soon as the car in front of you gets going, it starts going. Also helps so you don't get honked at for not moving at a light :p
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If Tesla autopilot is free, including hardware, on every model and trim level, how would we be delighted to pay? Makes no sense. I think Ford is trying to mix AP and FSD to uneducated consumers.
My understanding is that the normal Co-Pilot 360 features like adaptive cruise, lane centering, stop start traffic, blind spot monitoring etc, etc which I think are equivalent or better than standard AP are included on all Mach-E trim levels for free. The upgraded features to allow hands free driving, similar to what the future version of FSD could be, is what Ford is charging for. The hands free feature is not finalized with this release, it will be upgradable via OTA.
 

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My understanding is that the normal Co-Pilot 360 features like adaptive cruise, lane centering, stop start traffic, blind spot monitoring etc, etc which I think are equivalent or better than standard AP are included on all Mach-E trim levels for free. The upgraded features to allow hands free driving, similar to what the future version of FSD, is what Ford is charging for. The hands free feature is not finalized with this release, it will be upgradable via OTA.
It would be nice for that to be clarified. The press release seems to state the opposite of that. Hopefully they do that before they start asking people to place orders.
 
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So here is what was just relayed by Darrin Palmer and team about this topic.

The hands free hardware will be standard on the CA Route1, Premium and First Edition and optional on the rest (sorry no mention of the EU specs).

At the point of sale (online conversion) you as the customer will be fully aware of the of the options and pricing. Most of the cost will be in the upfront hardware purchase if it's not standard on your trim level. The OTA to activate the feature will "not be a huge fee" and will be payable via Ford Pass. Darrin specifically said that pricing has not been determined yet, but will be finalized before ordering starts and hinted that customers will be delighted when comparing the pricing to Tesla.

There was also talk that this will not be the final version / final capabilities of the hands free feature. Capabilities and performance improvements will be coming via OTA updates.
That makes more sense than the Forbes article and is consistent with the original tech specs. The difference is that the CA Route 1, Premium, and First Edition come standard with the
"Ford Co-Pilot360TM Technology: Active Park Assist 2.0 and 360 Degree Camera". This must be the hardware prep pack that would be an option for the Select and GT.
 

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The question then becomes will those options be bundled as package together as self park should not need the 360 camera but assume the camera is needed for the self drive.
 


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Considering this feature set is free in Tesla (minus park assist). I'm not sure how anyone can be "delighted" by paying something in comparison to zero.

Either I'm missing something in the feature set, or Ford doesn't realize exactly what Tesla's feature set is. Most likely they know and just marketing it against Full Self Driving even though they aren't close to the same.
I am a little miffed by this too, given that if it’s just a “small fee,” why not build it in as a goodwill gesture for early adopters who are about to commit to a car sight unseen. We are making a commitment to the technology with pricing and usability unknown. What if a customer upgrades for this hardware, only to find out it costs $5K and is a piece of junk? If it’s proven, go ahead and charge it as an upfront, disclosed price for future sales.

I will add one thing though, at least on the Model 3 one can theoretically purchase the car without AP, in the Standard Range (off menu). The cost to add AP is $3K. So technically the customer is paying for the feature (it just makes the apples to apples price comparison more stark between base Model 3 and MME base).
 

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on the Model 3 one can theoretically purchase the car without AP, in the Standard Range (off menu). The cost to add AP is $3K.
Interesting. So you are saying a Model 3 without AP is $34,999 ? Seems to be a pretty low price. Maybe it doesn't get OTA updates?
 

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Interesting. So you are saying a Model 3 without AP is $34,999 ? Seems to be a pretty low price. Maybe it doesn't get OTA updates?
It gets updates still, it's just bare bones and cant even be ordered from the website.
 

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Interesting. So you are saying a Model 3 without AP is $34,999 ? Seems to be a pretty low price. Maybe it doesn't get OTA updates?
It gets OTA updates. The SR Model 3 does not get AP, software capped range of 220 miles, and loses two speakers. Otherwise it’s the same car as the SR+.
 

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Considering this feature set is free in Tesla (minus park assist). I'm not sure how anyone can be "delighted" by paying something in comparison to zero.

Either I'm missing something in the feature set, or Ford doesn't realize exactly what Tesla's feature set is. Most likely they know and just marketing it against Full Self Driving even though they aren't close to the same.
Tesla isn't hands free, only Cadillac has that feature at this time, and its optional.
 

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The question then becomes will those options be bundled as package together as self park should not need the 360 camera but assume the camera is needed for the self drive.
There was mentioning of bundles in the meeting but it was not clear what was included. I suspect we’ll find out by next week.
 

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I am a little miffed by this too, given that if it’s just a “small fee,” why not build it in as a goodwill gesture for early adopters who are about to commit to a car sight unseen. We are making a commitment to the technology with pricing and usability unknown. What if a customer upgrades for this hardware, only to find out it costs $5K and is a piece of junk? If it’s proven, go ahead and charge it as an upfront, disclosed price for future sales.

I will add one thing though, at least on the Model 3 one can theoretically purchase the car without AP, in the Standard Range (off menu). The cost to add AP is $3K. So technically the customer is paying for the feature (it just makes the apples to apples price comparison more stark between base Model 3 and MME base).
That's fair. I forget the 35k option exists for the Model 3 because it's not available on the website and there is almost zero reason to order it over a SR+ at this point.

To your first point .. that's my biggest gripe. They need to announce a price for it, even if it's not available. To me, one of the deciding factors in the BEV market is how competitive in price and feature set the driving assist features (like Autopilot) are.
 

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Tesla isn't hands free, only Cadillac has that feature at this time, and its optional.
Yes and no. It will drive for a period of time hands free. Then you just have to either touch the wheel or a button on the wheel. I personally just sit my hand the bottom of the wheel and it gives it enough resistance that i rarely get nagged. Not really any different than setting it on my leg. So while that's not "hands-free", its effectively no hand input from me.

I stated this earlier, but a lot of how useful this is will depend on how nagging the "attention" feature is. If it goes crazy every time you glance way to look out the side window or at a passenger .. it's worse than having to set a hand on the wheel.
 

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given that if it’s just a “small fee,” why not build it in as a goodwill
As said I am not bothered with the self drive but for those that are a small fee is far to open, and saying less then tesla isn't really saying much $1 less than tesla is still less, 1/2 half is less but still a large chunk of change. Covid-19 no doubt threw a spanner in the works in relation to the roll out, but typically with car launches everyone knows upfront what you are supposed to be getting and associated costs, when it comes ship time is when you finally find out if everything went to plan.

The new explorer launch was an unmitigated disaster so you would think they would want to make sure the mach-e went as smooth as possible, but the waters are already muddied and we haven't even got to ordering. I am not jumping ship and giving up my reservation yet but Ford needs to do better as good will only goes so far
 

Stickboy46

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As said I am not bothered with the self drive but for those that are a small fee is far to open, and saying less then tesla isn't really saying much $1 less than tesla is still less, 1/2 half is less but still a large chunk of change. Covid-19 no doubt threw a spanner in the works in relation to the roll out, but typically with car launches everyone knows upfront what you are supposed to be getting and associated costs, when it comes ship time is when you finally find out if everything went to plan.

The new explorer launch was an unmitigated disaster so you would think they would want to make sure the mach-e went as smooth as possible, but the waters are already muddied and we haven't even got to ordering. I am not jumping ship and giving up my reservation yet but Ford needs to do better as good will only goes so far
I'm also confident that Ford's idea of a "small fee" probably doesn't match what most customers considers a "small fee" :)

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