Ford cancels Model e Dealer Program, letting all US retailers sell EVs

[Jimrpa]

A lot in the EV landscape changed between announcement and launch. Certainly more competitors in the space changed the sales trajectory. You and I are going to continue to disagree on the embarrassment point. I don't think the sticking point was the program itself, the biggest issue was the financial commitment from the dealers on charging infrastructure. If that didn't exist, I believe this program would still be in place.

I still firmly believe Ford should create their own network like Tesla, but I don't see a plan like that getting approved.

In an ideal world, I think that Tesla should sell their supercharger hardware to other manufacturers , both in the EV Charging space (EVgo/EA/Chargepoint/et. al.) and the automotive space to deploy with the ability to both cost share and profit share. That way the infrastructure would get standardized to NACS, as well as spread the costs of this massive infrastructure to more than one company. We're already part of the way there with nearly all the major players committing to NACS going forward.

I believe that is exactly what Ford Charge is.

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[Sikkun]

Good point.
But neither Elon or Farley are personally the reason that order #8888 of a FREE DCFC adapter hasn't been shipped. (for example)

Unless firing the supercharger team is the reason for the delay!!!!!

/s

(I don’t actually think it is, I don’t think he actually fired the people manufacturing adapters)

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah, that will drive me to my friendly BMW dealer right quick

True, that will turn some away. But there's a reason CR-Vs and Camrys and Rav4s outsell BMWs.

Affordability.

 

[Spike]

who would want to go to a Ford dealer to charge? No thanks. But in a hot market, dealers could return to price gauging I suppose. Not much of an issue at the moment.

no one was making anyone go to a dealer to charge. Ford wanted to show their support that people would automatically know if they were on a road trip they could stop at a Ford dealer for a fast charge, maybe buy some accessories, maybe decide to buy another car. Just a way to drive people in to the dealership.

 

[Jimrpa]

True, that will turn some away. But there's a reason CR-Vs and Camrys and Rav4s outsell BMWs.

Affordability.

Look how successful EcoSport was. Ford actually does not do “affordability” very well in the US market. Hence why, in my opinion, why it was wise for ford to develop and market an electric Mustang that could command a premium and fill a niche other manufacturers were ignoring.

 

[Sikkun]

no one was making anyone go to a dealer to charge. Ford wanted to show their support that people would automatically know if they were on a road trip they could stop at a Ford dealer for a fast charge, maybe buy some accessories, maybe decide to buy another car. Just a way to drive people in to the dealership.

Feel like it was more likely people would have viewed it as a place to get some free popcorn and drinks while using a clean bathroom. Probability of you spending a lot of time car shopping while on a road trip seems low.

But maybe that’s just dealers in my area.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I don’t think he actually fired the people manufacturing adapters)

He personally only fired executive level employees. The adapter are apparently mades at the Buffalo 🦬 plant. Assembly level workers were fired there, just not by him.

 

[dbsb3233]

Look how successful EcoSport was. Ford actually does not do “affordability” very well in the US market. Hence why, in my opinion, why it was wise for ford to develop and market an electric Mustang that could command a premium and fill a niche other manufacturers were ignoring.

Yeah, I was just referencing Ecosport for size (one step below the Escape). It won't be the actual old Ecosport, of course, but I could see it being similar because that's what Ford said it's gonna take to make a profitable BEV... Escape size and smaller. Gotta keep battery size down to keep cost down, until battery cost gets way better. And gotta qualify for the tax credit.

ICE is a different matter. They can make a profit on larger vehicles.

 

[Jimrpa]

He personally only fired executive level employees. The adapter are apparently mades at the Buffalo 🦬 plant. Assembly level workers were fired there, just not by him.

Has anyone done a tear down of the adaptor? It’s odd that, other than a few inscrutable codes, there’s NO branding visible, or “manufactured by” or even country of origin.

 

[Jimrpa]

Yeah, I was just referencing Ecosport for size (one step below the Escape). It won't be the actual old Ecosport, of course, but I could see it being similar because that's what Ford said it's gonna take to make a profitable BEV... Escape size and smaller. Gotta keep battery size down to keep cost down, until battery cost gets way better. And gotta qualify for the tax credit.

ICE is a different matter. They can make a profit on larger vehicles.

Yeah, I understood. I just can’t see ford successfully producing and selling an “economical” EV. That’s just not in their wheelhouse in the US market.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah, I understood. I just can’t see ford successfully producing and selling an “economical” EV. That’s just not in their wheelhouse in the US market.

It's definitely a quandary. That's the reason Ford made the Mach-E and the Lightning in the first place, because they knew the North American market generally didn't like small econocars. There's not *no* market for them, but it's definitely a smaller slice of the market here.

But they're losing $billions making them, which is not working either. And there doesn't seem to be a quick fix to that high cost equation that will make them profitable anytime soon. So, they have to change something. Government mandates require they have some mix of low and/or zero emission vehicles in the fleet to keep from getting raked over the coals with fines. In order to make them profitable, that means more hybrids (which only help their CAFE avg marginally), and smaller BEVs. They don't need a small BEV to be a best-seller, they just need to sell ENOUGH to help their CAFE averages.

In other words, it's back to compliance EVs. But with the experience now to hopefully not make them too compliancy.

 

[Otto klub]

Has anyone done a tear down of the adaptor? It’s odd that, other than a few inscrutable codes, there’s NO branding visible, or “manufactured by” or even country of origin.

Is there a UL listing mark?

 

[ChasingCoral]

Is there a UL listing mark?

No. There can't be one.

The UL standard for DC Fast Charging adapters is currently under discussion but has not been approved.

 

[Otto klub]

Thanks

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Is there a UL listing mark?

There’s a matrix code on it. Using a matrix reader doesn’t yield anything useable by us.

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