macchiaz-o

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(This discussion should be in the Charging subforum.)

Ford has an updated charger information sheet. This is the 2-page document that we are supposed to share with our electricians.

The link from the Connected Charge Station page on parts.ford.com is still out of date (revised 8/31/2020). The latest version (10/13/2020) is available here, and attached.

The 10/13/2020 revision has a few differences from the 8/31/2020 version:
  • Pages are shuffled such that the Mobile Charger appears first, Connected Charge Station last.
  • 20 miles of range added per charging hour, instead of 21 miles, when charging an ER RWD with the mobile charger at its full power on a 40 or 50 amp, 240 volt circuit.
  • IMPORTANT: With the Connected Charge Station, the circuit should be protected by a non-GFCI breaker since the EVSE has an internal GFCI and false tripping will occur.
The "Home Install Spec Sheet" was updated on 11/17. This time the latest version is on the Connected Charge Station page on parts.ford.com and not yet on the main ford.com page.

Changes compared to the 10/13 doc:
  • some explainer/marketing blurbs added about how the Connected Charge Station is up to 10x faster than charging from a standard wall outlet
  • a footnote added to explain the testing conditions of the above claim
  • an extraneous/unrelated footnote was removed from page 1
So here's the interesting part...

The recommendation for a 50A GFCI is still present for the Ford Mobile Charger. To me, this is in conflict with page 159 of the owner's manual touts this built-in safety feature of the mobile charger:

GFCI Protection: The charger is equipped with a Ground Fault Circuit Interruption (GFCI) reaction system to protect against electric shock. If the charger module detects an output ground fault, it will shut down power to the output cable and illuminate the RED indicator.​

 

RonTCat

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The recommendation for a 50A GFCI is still present for the Ford Mobile Charger. To me, this is in conflict with page 159 of the owner's manual touts this built-in safety feature of the mobile charger:

GFCI Protection: The charger is equipped with a Ground Fault Circuit Interruption (GFCI) reaction system to protect against electric shock. If the charger module detects an output ground fault, it will shut down power to the output cable and illuminate the RED indicator.​
This seems to translate as:
- The Mobile Charger only GFI protects its output. The wire/connector between the Mobile Charger and the vehicle is GFI protected. You would be GFI protected while plugging the connector into your vehicle.
- While plugging the Mobile Charger into a 14-50 connector, you will not be GFI protected if you came in contact with this connection point. To be GFI protected for this event, you need a GFIC type circuit breaker as part of your home wiring for this outlet.
 

macchiaz-o

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This seems to translate as:
- The Mobile Charger only GFI protects its output. The wire/connector between the Mobile Charger and the vehicle is GFI protected. You would be GFI protected while plugging the connector into your vehicle.
- While plugging the Mobile Charger into a 14-50 connector, you will not be GFI protected if you came in contact with this connection point. To be GFI protected for this event, you need a GFIC type circuit breaker as part of your home wiring for this outlet.
Lack of upstream ground fault protection is always the case, with any EVSE. Right? I think the only way to protect the path between the breaker (providing the 'hot' load) and the first receptacle/device is if the protection is built into the breaker itself. And they are quite expensive.

But if you use a GFCI breaker, how is it possible to avoid false tripping when the EVSE is also running ground checks?

This is another safety feature of the mobile charger:

Service Ground Check: The charger constantly checks for the presence of a service ground connection. If the service ground ever fails, the charger RED indicator turns ON and shuts down power to the vehicle.​
 

RonTCat

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Lack of upstream ground fault protection is always the case, with any EVSE. Right? I think the only way to protect the path between the breaker (providing the 'hot' load) and the first receptacle/device is if the protection is built into the breaker itself. And they are quite expensive.

But if you use a GFCI breaker, how is it possible to avoid false tripping when the EVSE is also running ground checks?

This is another safety feature of the mobile charger:

Service Ground Check: The charger constantly checks for the presence of a service ground connection. If the service ground ever fails, the charger RED indicator turns ON and shuts down power to the vehicle.​
The other charger is hardwired, so the only human accessible connection is charger to vehicle, so upstream GFI is not really a need.
 

macchiaz-o

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The other charger is hardwired, so the only human accessible connection is charger to vehicle, so upstream GFI is not really a need.
Right. But the mobile charger isn't hardwired and the vehicle owner's manual is specifying safety features for it that seem to be in conflict with the electrician info sheet.

Or I'm not understanding how this works, which is highly possible.
 


RonTCat

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Right. But the mobile charger isn't hardwired and the vehicle owner's manual is specifying safety features for it that seem to be in conflict with the electrician info sheet.

Or I'm not understanding how this works, which is highly possible.
There is no conflict with the manual and info sheet for the mobile charger. Here's what they are telling you:

1606079936052.png
 

macchiaz-o

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There is no conflict with the manual and info sheet for the mobile charger. Here's what they are telling you:

1606079936052.png
I think I understand the above picture. But you are leaving out the Service Ground Check function.

Isn't it the case that when the EVSE performs a service ground check, it may cause an upstream ("Service") GFI protector to detect fault and open the circuit?

I thought that this is the specific safety function that causes many other EVSE installation manuals to instruct that we NOT use a GFI breaker.
 

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Isn't it the case that when the EVSE performs a service ground check, it may cause an upstream ("Service") GFI protector to detect fault and open the circuit?

I thought that this is the specific safety function that causes many other EVSE installation manuals to instruct that we NOT use a GFI breaker.
I don't believe ground service check and GFCI are inherently in conflict. Manufacturers recommends avoiding GFCI receptacle for two reasons:

* Their ground service check in their product is low quality: it is implemented in a fashion that may sometimes (sometimes or always) leak too much current and may trigger some (or all) spec-compliant GFCI protection device.
* The manufacturer doesn't want to deal with support requests involving low-quality (non-spec-compliant) GFCI protection devices. It's just so much easier to tell the customers that they shouldn't use GFCI.

This is just my guess. I don't have any evidence.

But if you're willing to draw any parallelisms, you can take a look at refrigerators. Older models don't work with GFCI. Modern ones do. That's the basis of my guess.
 

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Let me butt into this thread with my problem.
Had electrician install proper 240v outlet prior to Mach e purchase. Came home with car plugged charger into 240, charger showed amber (indicating a fault), then changed plug into 120 same amber. Took car back to dealer they tested my charger in both 120and 240, all ok. Had electrician back he checked everything and said no problem with my house electrical system. Tried charger again same damn problem.
Totally perplexed, any ideas!!!!!!
 

Bookworm214

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Let me butt into this thread with my problem.
Had electrician install proper 240v outlet prior to Mach e purchase. Came home with car plugged charger into 240, charger showed amber (indicating a fault), then changed plug into 120 same amber. Took car back to dealer they tested my charger in both 120and 240, all ok. Had electrician back he checked everything and said no problem with my house electrical system. Tried charger again same damn problem.
Totally perplexed, any ideas!!!!!!
Is your outlet connected to a GFCI breaker?
 

methorian

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Let me butt into this thread with my problem.
Had electrician install proper 240v outlet prior to Mach e purchase. Came home with car plugged charger into 240, charger showed amber (indicating a fault), then changed plug into 120 same amber. Took car back to dealer they tested my charger in both 120and 240, all ok. Had electrician back he checked everything and said no problem with my house electrical system. Tried charger again same damn problem.
Totally perplexed, any ideas!!!!!!
This reminds me that I should plug mine in at some point soon to test it. Have just been using my Grizzl-E.

Sorry about your issues!
 

Orangefirefish

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The other charger is hardwired, so the only human accessible connection is charger to vehicle, so upstream GFI is not really a need.
Interesting. I have a GFCI breaker going on mine and I am intending on using the mobile charger. The latest revision to the NEC requires them on all garage outlets and a breaker is the only reasonable way to accomplish this on 220V.
 

Maquis

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Let me butt into this thread with my problem.
Had electrician install proper 240v outlet prior to Mach e purchase. Came home with car plugged charger into 240, charger showed amber (indicating a fault), then changed plug into 120 same amber. Took car back to dealer they tested my charger in both 120and 240, all ok. Had electrician back he checked everything and said no problem with my house electrical system. Tried charger again same damn problem.
Totally perplexed, any ideas!!!!!!
Are any other lights on? The manual explains different faults for different combinations of lights. If Amber is the only one lit:
1612973115792.png


Basically "Requires troubleshooting" Kind of vague.
 

RyZt

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Let me butt into this thread with my problem.
Had electrician install proper 240v outlet prior to Mach e purchase. Came home with car plugged charger into 240, charger showed amber (indicating a fault), then changed plug into 120 same amber. Took car back to dealer they tested my charger in both 120and 240, all ok. Had electrician back he checked everything and said no problem with my house electrical system. Tried charger again same damn problem.
Totally perplexed, any ideas!!!!!!
I don't believe GFCI can be the problem. The Ford mobile charger recommends GFCI outlet. In any case, unless GFCI trips, GFCI isn't the problem. When GFCI trips, the circuit would have no power (the EVSE will show no lights), and you'll need to reset the breaker. The reason some chargers won't work with with GFCI is that 1) it actually works, but they say it doesn't to minimize support load, or 2) they leak too much current into ground when they do the ground check, tripping the GFCI.

I suspect that the problem is that you don't have proper ground at home.

In general, EVSE refuses to work without ground. I checked the manual, there isn't a specific indicator combination for bad ground. So that error would have to use the amber only combination. This is consistent with your experience.

 
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