timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
591
Reaction score
535
Location
New Jersey
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2015 Mustang Convertible, 2016 Dodge Durango
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Great info... Looks like there are differences from the US models. If the range is indeed in miles, that would be an improvement, but in line with my thinking given weight and size of the battery for the ER AWD.
The UK uses WLTP for rating mileage, which generates higher range numbers than EPA's method here in the states. It is generally accepted that the WLTP numbers are high, and the EPA a little low from reality
 

portlandg

Well-Known Member
First Name
grahame
Joined
Mar 17, 2020
Messages
178
Reaction score
113
Location
uk
First Name
grahame
Vehicles
kuga st line x RWD ER MACH E on order
Occupation
Cabinet maker
Country flag
The UK uses WLTP for rating mileage, which generates higher range numbers than EPA's method here in the states. It is generally accepted that the WLTP numbers are high, and the EPA a little low from reality
So hopefully we should be able to get about 320 to 330 miles range . I could live with that
 

LYTMCQ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lyt
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
963
Reaction score
356
Location
Portland
First Name
Lyt
Vehicles
Telsa Model 3 LR AWD
Country flag
So hopefully we should be able to get about 320 to 330 miles range . I could live with that
LR RWD is rated 300 miles EPA so I would expect that range at best. EPA testing does not include the heat which is free on ICE cars and energy costly on EV's. Tesla's heater is 4kw and will use 16 miles of range per hour of driving if on full, likely 8-10 in regular cool weather driving.

Cooler weather, 50F and less, is going to start impacting range via the battery capacity so that will also lower actual range.

And then, regular charging is 10%-85% so working range of 75% on day to day, 225 day to day. On road trips, charging that last 15% is a slow process so you will likely be using the 225 on trips to get fast charging when you do stop. Than deduct the heat as needed. Then deduct the battery capacity as it gets colder.

And then battery degradation over time, 5% 1st year, 10% by 2nd year is not uncommon.

It's best to approach the range conservatively especially if one is doing a lot of miles a year and longer trips.
 

Wonky_Donkey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
115
Reaction score
203
Location
UK
First Name
Tony
Vehicles
2019 Prius PHEV
Country flag
LR RWD is rated 300 miles EPA so I would expect that range at best. EPA testing does not include the heat which is free on ICE cars and energy costly on EV's. Tesla's heater is 4kw and will use 16 miles of range per hour of driving if on full, likely 8-10 in regular cool weather driving.

Cooler weather, 50F and less, is going to start impacting range via the battery capacity so that will also lower actual range.

And then, regular charging is 10%-85% so working range of 75% on day to day, 225 day to day. On road trips, charging that last 15% is a slow process so you will likely be using the 225 on trips to get fast charging when you do stop. Than deduct the heat as needed. Then deduct the battery capacity as it gets colder.

And then battery degradation over time, 5% 1st year, 10% by 2nd year is not uncommon.

It's best to approach the range conservatively especially if one is doing a lot of miles a year and longer trips.

...all very true, but also it comes down to individual driving style, the types of journeys you do, and the speeds that you can drive at.

So actually EPA / WLTP is all just a best guess - a finger in the wind to be able to compare vehicles on the same potentially unrealistic set of rules - it gives you a rough idea, and no more.

One of the many reasons why WLTP figures are higher for Europe / UK is that we don't spend anything like the proportion of US journeys on fast roads. A large amount of our road infrastructure is old and slow (but conversely more efficient to drive on)

The only true way you will find out what range you will get in a Mach-E is to buy one and drive it in your country, on your roads, in your climate, with you behind the wheel.
 

LYTMCQ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lyt
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
963
Reaction score
356
Location
Portland
First Name
Lyt
Vehicles
Telsa Model 3 LR AWD
Country flag
So actually EPA / WLTP is all just a best guess
EPA is spot on for ICE vehicles. Usually you can beat EPA numbers. EVs have issues that EPA does not really measure, heat, higher losses than ICE at higher speed, temp effect on battery/range, the 75% rule and battery degradation over time. You don't see a 5% deration on an ICE vehicle mileage in first year or second year.
It comes down to individual driving style, the types of journeys you do, and the speeds that you can drive at.
Always but the deration for EV's is more in day to day use and the charging on the road adds a lot of time so you need to go in with all the practical facts.

Single biggest surprise with new Tesla owners is range, range, range and Tesla's have tops range.

Drove to Everett WA on Friday, 196 one way, 392 round trip. I had to charge for 30 minutes three times in an ostensibly 310 rated car. That would have been two charges for someone with home charging but the "book" would have said one 20 minute charge.

That kind of higher "maintenance" plays out every day.
 

EVer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
83
Location
California USA
Vehicles
Model 3P, F150, Volt <- looking to replace with MachE
Country flag
"higher losses than ICE at higher speed "

This isn't so. Both experience an exponential increase in drag. Most ICE-powered cars have multi-gear transmissions. while most BEV cars do not. That is the primary factor, not the energy source.
 

LYTMCQ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lyt
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
963
Reaction score
356
Location
Portland
First Name
Lyt
Vehicles
Telsa Model 3 LR AWD
Country flag
This isn't so. Both experience an exponential increase in drag. Most ICE-powered cars have multi-gear transmissions. while most BEV cars do not.
Which is why it is so. Porsche has a two gear setup in the Taycan which is why most Porsche owners are seeing 240 mile real world range vs. EPA 200.
 

Wonky_Donkey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
115
Reaction score
203
Location
UK
First Name
Tony
Vehicles
2019 Prius PHEV
Country flag
@LYTMCQ - let’s not forget that according to WhatCar’s comparison of EPA vs Manufacturers - the Elon buggy’s have the greatest deviation between quoted and actual range.

That may be why your experience has not been great at obtaining the quoted figures.;)
 

EVer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
83
Location
California USA
Vehicles
Model 3P, F150, Volt <- looking to replace with MachE
Country flag
"Porsche has a two gear setup in the Taycan which is why most Porsche owners are seeing 240 mile real world range vs. EPA 200. "

It isn't as if they disabled the second gear during testing. You make no sense.
 

LYTMCQ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lyt
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
963
Reaction score
356
Location
Portland
First Name
Lyt
Vehicles
Telsa Model 3 LR AWD
Country flag
It isn't as if they disabled the second gear during testing.
EPA has four high speed tests, three are at 60mph top and one has short top speed of 80 mph so the Porsche high gear would tend to get de-emphasized.

"The gearing step is large, with the second-gear ratio roughly half of the first and the shift point happening around 50 mph. In most driving, the Taycan runs in top gear. First-gear starts happen in Sport or Sport Plus mode; to do it in Normal, you'll need a large accelerator input."

So the 2nd gear is big jump and doesn't start until 50 mph so Taycan's range gets understated above 50 mph and owners are seeing the 240 in real world driving.
 
Last edited:
Top