FORD FURTHER POSTPONES NA PRODUCTION RESTART TO PROTECT WORKFORCE - UNKNOWN RESTART DATE

Ken7

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Mark, I actually wasn't commenting on your post at all. I was simply adding some info that had just come out.

The real problem is how does one determine what is 'too soon'. Dr. Fauci would, I think, if left to his own devices, would probably keep everything shut down until there was a vaccine...assuming we'll find a vaccine. He's old school and there is a need for that voice too. Just remember there is a counter to the 'too soon' scenario, and that's the 'too late' scenario. At some point this country will simply die as we know it. Leaving it closed too long will cause irreparable damage to our economy and that will most certainly lead to many many deaths from a variety of causes.
 

ChasingCoral

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The real problem is how does one determine what is 'too soon'. Dr. Fauci would, I think, if left to his own devices, would probably keep everything shut down until there was a vaccine...assuming we'll find a vaccine. He's old school and there is a need for that voice too.
Actually, that's not the case. I've heard Dr. Fauci discuss what we've learned from the 1918 influenza pandemic and how that can be addressed. Right now, he doesn't have time to worry about that end as we are playing such a game of catch up. However, he's one of the first to point out what we can learn from previous pandemics and the need to use models to set policy.
 

MNAce

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Much of the drop in total mortality numbers has also resulted from the rapid implementation of social distancing and other measures to "flatten the curve". However, if those measures are removed too soon, the second spike (and there will be one just as was seen in most cities after the 1918 influenza) could result in more deaths. Total mortality is based on both spikes and just as we've reduced them through good policy, we can raise them again with bad policy. Of course, we could just ignore the models, lick our fingers and stick them in the air and go with our gut rather than using all the tools at our disposal to make intelligent decisions.

Either way, my post said nothing about the number of total deaths. The models I cited are discussing timing and how soon Detroit auto factories can open back up. However, as discussed in my first paragraph, if the Big 3 open them up wrong they'll just end up shutting them down again.
Don’t lick your fingers! #killthevirus
 

Ken7

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Actually, that's not the case. I've heard Dr. Fauci discuss what we've learned from the 1918 influenza pandemic and how that can be addressed. Right now, he doesn't have time to worry about that end as we are playing such a game of catch up. However, he's one of the first to point out what we can learn from previous pandemics and the need to use models to set policy.
Remember, Dr. Fauci is one voice, a very conservative medical voice, in the total equation. He is absolutely a voice that needs to be heard, among others. As I said, there is a blend between what he says and what is essential to avoid a total, irrevocable, collapse of the U.S. economy. Anyone that discounts the importance of such a collapse, is kidding themselves. It would be utterly disastrous in so many respects, including numerous deaths that would occur from a variety of causes.

Remember too that Dr. Fauci was just as wrong at the beginning of this crisis as others, when he was downplaying what was going on in the January/February timeframe. It wasn't his fault, but rather the horribly inaccurate and outright deceptive information coming out of both China and the WHO. Now, in S.Korea, we have approximately 50 people who had tested negative after having the virus, that are now testing positive. This is yet another fly in the ointment.
 

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Actually that's not correct. It came out during yesterday's briefing with Dr. Birx & Fauci that the deaths reported in the U.S. are sometimes reported at COVID 19 deaths when there were actually underlying health issues which may have been the true cause of death. This is not made up by someone on Facebook, it was discussed at yesterday's briefing.
Yes FOX News did try to make much out of those comments during the day, but did you see what Birx and Fauci actually responded when asked about it in the brief?
Birx explained that, when someone dies from an underlying cause that is made acute by COVID, it should be listed as a COVID. When Fauci was asked, he referred to the idea of over-reporting of such deaths as a conspiracy theory.

At the end, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You seem to think that if, for example, I have asthma and get COVID and die from the resulting respiratory issues exacerbated by my more susceptible system, the cause of my death was asthma — and not COVID. I disagree.
Plus, again, the bigger gap in reporting is likely deaths that are due to COVID but are not reported as such because only tested cases are reported in the first place.
 

Ken7

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And where did I mention Fox News? OY! What Birx said ‘should be’ is not what ‘is happening’. The point I was trying to make is that our numbers can’t be compared to countries where cause of death is handled differently. That most certainly is happening. So yes, we will most certainly agree to disagree.
 

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Remember, Dr. Fauci is one voice
Please list other "voices" with links.

Please remember Dr. Fauci is THE VOICE on infectious diseases. I mean, he's not Jared Kushner, but still.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/director

"Dr. Fauci was appointed Director of NIAID in 1984. He oversees an extensive research portfolio of basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose, and treat established infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis and malaria as well as emerging diseases such as Ebola and Zika. NIAID also supports research on transplantation and immune-related illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, asthma and allergies. The NIAID budget for fiscal year 2020 is an estimated $5.9 billion.

Dr. Fauci has advised six Presidents on HIV/AIDS and many other domestic and global health issues. He was one of the principal architects of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a program that has saved millions of lives throughout the developing world."

With Trumps appointments at CDC, FEMA and FDA being major league bumblers (there's a reason they're kept hidden from view) from screwing up testing (CDC) to canceling orders for vents (FEMA) to approving malaria drugs (FEMA) they can't be let out.

Remember too that Dr. Fauci was just as wrong at the beginning of this crisis as others
Remember that is also proven wrong though that has been the latest Fox News defense for Trump's incompetence. That WHO/China/Fauci/NSC never told Trump or he woulda done sumpin. We call that the Captain Renault defense, I'm shocked, shocked to find a pandemic in this establishment.

It's all on tapes and videos and on Trump's head.

Here's Dr. Desai laying it out much to chagrin of the Fox News host. Note the Dec. 31, 2019 date mentioned by Dr. Desai.

Two Weeks to Stop Coronavirus - Martha MacCallum with Dr Rishi Desai - YouTube
 
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pbojanoski

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Please list other "voices" with links.

Please remember Dr. Fauci is THE VOICE on infectious diseases. I mean, he's not Jared Kushner, but still.

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/director

"Dr. Fauci was appointed Director of NIAID in 1984. He oversees an extensive research portfolio of basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose, and treat established infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis and malaria as well as emerging diseases such as Ebola and Zika. NIAID also supports research on transplantation and immune-related illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, asthma and allergies. The NIAID budget for fiscal year 2020 is an estimated $5.9 billion.

Dr. Fauci has advised six Presidents on HIV/AIDS and many other domestic and global health issues. He was one of the principal architects of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a program that has saved millions of lives throughout the developing world."

With Trumps appointments at CDC, FEMA and FDA being major league bumblers (there's a reason they're kept hidden from view) from screwing up testing (CDC) to canceling orders for vents (FEMA) to approving malaria drugs (FEMA) they can't be let out.



Remember that is also proven wrong though that has been the latest Fox News defense for Trump's incompetence. That WHO/China/Fauci/NSC never told Trump or he woulda done sumpin. We call that the Captain Renault defense, I'm shocked, shocked to find a pandemic in this establishment.

It's all on tapes and videos and on Trump's head.

Here's Dr. Desai laying it out much to chagrin of the Fox News host. Note the Dec. 31, 2019 date mentioned by Dr. Desai.

Two Weeks to Stop Coronavirus - Martha MacCallum with Dr Rishi Desai - YouTube
I think you should keep your partisan bomb throwing and hate to the "coronavirus" thread. I don't think we need multiple threads with your division and tearing down of this country while most of us are actually trying to get this country well again. We need people to come together in this country, defeat the disease, and get this country back to work. We are playing with fire with a failed economy and you obviously don't care a lick. This is all a political game to you. Your commentary is divisive and despicable. I can only hope most here can see what you are doing and will ignore you.
 

pbojanoski

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Yes FOX News did try to make much out of those comments during the day, but did you see what Birx and Fauci actually responded when asked about it in the brief?
Birx explained that, when someone dies from an underlying cause that is made acute by COVID, it should be listed as a COVID. When Fauci was asked, he referred to the idea of over-reporting of such deaths as a conspiracy theory.

At the end, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You seem to think that if, for example, I have asthma and get COVID and die from the resulting respiratory issues exacerbated by my more susceptible system, the cause of my death was asthma — and not COVID. I disagree.
Plus, again, the bigger gap in reporting is likely deaths that are due to COVID but are not reported as such because only tested cases are reported in the first place.
There are plenty of arguments on both sides. I'm sure there is a lot of variability depending on who is declaring the cause of death and their predispositions. There are arguments that it could be over-reported, there are arguments that it could be under-reported. WHO CARES? Let's keep our eye on the ball folks. We might be hitting the worst of it and getting better soon. How do we keep getting better and restart the economy?

Arguing over stats and politics is a waste of time right now. Save it for the election season where it belongs. And even then, almost all of the partisan bickering will be deafening and useless.
 
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Ken7

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I think you should keep your partisan bomb throwing and hate to the "coronavirus" thread. I don't think we need multiple threads with your division and tearing down of this country while most of us are actually trying to get this country well again. We need people to come together in this country, defeat the disease, and get this country back to work. We are playing with fire with a failed economy and you obviously don't care a lick. This is all a political game to you. Your commentary is divisive and despicable. I can only hope most here can see what you are doing and will ignore you.
I can only imagine what he said, but in actuality I have zero interest. His divisiveness and bomb throwing at a time like this is beyond reprehensible. He will never change, trust me. But look how nice this page looks without his comments!

75073425-A6E6-46AA-BF90-832CE1AB94D4.png
 

LYTMCQ

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. Your commentary is divisive and despicable.
You don't source your comments and use extreme language when others reply with solid sources that contradict your raw opinions.

Shakespeare "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" would seem to apply.

I was just posting some facts vs. some misleading and unsupported comments you made about Dr. Fauci.

With everything on tape, there’s no getting around the facts.

Be interesting to see the links to those ”other voices”. Vs. Dr. Fauci. I know Dr. Oz was mentioned.
 
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portlandg

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Everybody's stock is taking a hit at the moment due to the current situation. Typical journalist scaremongering. Ford has been around for long enough to weather this storm. Production/delivery will likely be delayed which although it would be an inconvenience and disappointing not the end of the world. Until Ford announce bankruptcy themselves I am still looking forward to receiving delivery of this cracking car
 

pbojanoski

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You don't source your comments and use extreme language when others reply with solid sources that contradict your raw opinions.

Shakespeare "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" would seem to apply.

I was just posting some facts vs. some misleading and unsupported comments you made about Dr. Fauci.

With everything on tape, there’s no getting around the facts.

Be interesting to see the links to those ”other voices”. Vs. Dr. Fauci. I know Dr. Oz was mentioned.
First of all, since you seem not to have noticed, I don't overwhelm people with facts that are virtually meaningless to how we move forward. I only provide my opinions and clearly state them as such. Secondly, I don't drop political bombs and hate toward people(like you do), thirdly my main focus has been and will continue to be talking about what can be done to move FORWARD and get past this disease and get the economy working.

I don't use extreme language accept to call out political hacks like you for their obvious hate and singular focus on tearing others down. I have never ripped any political party or politician in any of my commentary. Clearly, I am nothing like you in that regard.

And congratulations for using the tried and true propagandist technique of blaming me for everything you are doing. For the uninformed it makes it look like you are on the high road, when in fact your on the lowest roads available.

And I didn't make ANY comment about Dr. Fauci, so thanks for demonstrating another lie. Perfect!

So this is finally the end for me. I've dealt with your kind before. There is no having a conversation with you without getting completely covered in your slimy ways. I am done with your divisiveness and hate in this time where we need unity.

Keep spewing your partisan hackery. I can only hope everyone here knows it and ignores you.
 

LYTMCQ

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First of all, since you seem not to have noticed, I don't overwhelm people with facts
You don't provide any facts, just your opinions which are unsupported by facts. When those contradictory facts with sources are posted, you lash out.

Post facts or at least sources for your opinions.

Skip the post facto analysis of others motives, motes and beams.
 
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