Ford Playing Number Games? Help us understand the price shuffle.... Has Anyone ACTUALLY seen what is being done?

JTMACHEGT

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So I am a LONG time Ford customer. I worked for a Ford dealer for 20 years. I built it into one of the biggest performance dealers around.

As we all know, some dealers like to play price shuffling games. I always tried to be on the up and up on the dealer level being honest with people.

But I am sorry here Ford. This looks like you are playing games.

I have a 2021 Mach E GT PE. I ordered a 2023 last year once they were finally available to order again and planned to trade mine in. At that time Ford RAISED the price ironically to almost match the $7500 incentive that was available as many of you know.
I thought it was funny because the increased price was so close the the amount of the incentive. It was so obvious that they just wanted to essentially claim the government money themselves.

Again, I have been in the Auto industry OVER 20 years. I am very attune to every aspect of increased materials and labor costs, supply and demand and price increases year to year, etc. Those increases are generally not $7000+ from a manufacturer. Then the announcement was “significant material cost increases and other factors,” The motivational question I had at the time was, "What are the other factors?" The fact that there is a federal $7500 incentive you think you should take yourself?
We know dealers put ADMs on some things, but this is not typical manufacturer behavior. Especially not Ford, who again, I have been a proud and loyal customer and employed within for years. We look to manufacturers for stability.

I was reluctant to place/keep the order after they did that, but the $7500 was still in place and there was talk that it may be a cash incentive come the next year vs a tax credit from the federal government.
I talked my sister into ordering a 2023 Mach E GT as well because the car is so great. (more on this later)

My 2023 GT PE arrived in late Jan. (it was supposed to arrive in Dec, but was in transit for over 2 months) In Jan the federal rebate ended because the car was reclassified and it wasn't worth taking when Ford Raised the Price tag so much. Then in the first week of Feb, Ford cut the price tag as many of you know (basically the same as what they raised it in fall 22). They cut it after the car was reclassified and the Federal rebate was removed. (Again, cut to pre increase level)

Here goes the roller coaster.

So now, we are in the second week of Feb I believe, and the car is reclassified and the $7500 incentive is back on! So now I think, maybe I will look into trading up again. So I got the process started Mid to late Feb. Now however, book values on the 21's had started to drop. Ok, that happens. That isn't Fords fault.
I went ahead and started the process. I went to pick up the 2023 model and trade in my 2021. Keep in mind, I am trading almost the IDENTICAL vehicle. Same color, same options. The only difference is the black wheels with the Nite Pony Package.

I do the paperwork, I swap cars and drive off to head home. When I was sitting in the dealer parking lot, and setting up my radio stations. Adding my phone as a key, etc. The clock was around 3:30pm. I remember looking at it. I drove off and hit the interstate. I turned on cruise control and was ready for about a 2 hour drive. When all of the sudden the car SLAMMED on the brakes! It almost cause several accidents as people behind me had to as well. Then it stepped on the gas (so to speak) then hit the brakes I about had a heart attack. I turned off CC before something happened and I am baffled. I then got a little out of traffic and tried to test it and its doing it again. Its going crazy. I also noticed that I used about 18% of battery on a GT PE after about 13 miles which... I own one... that's not normal.

So I called my sales guy and said I needed to come back. The car had an issue. Just so you can all see, Here is a video.

Notice the speed limit sign in the bottom right of the screen. Now I am on an INTERSTATE and the speed limit is 70mph.
Notice how the speed sign flashes 25mph, 45mph, even 5MPH!!

This was a short clip. I could have recorded more. I recorded this on the way BACK with the car.

Things to note are. I was NOT using Blue Cruise. Only Adaptive CC.
Also, as I noted earlier about the clock being 3:30pm when I left. About 15-20 later when this started happening, it went to 6:30 and 8:30.

My thought was, it was skipping time zones and pulling speed limits from god knows where it was at. However, the real clincher was.. why did it slam on the brakes and hit the throttle? I believe after doing a little digging, it was because a new feature mine didn't have was turned on as a default.... Speed Limit Assist...

So thanks for making sure I didn't speed over 5mph on an interstate lol. It only nearly killed me.


















I took it back to the dealer and we discussed if I wanted to have it repaired or not take it. I gave it a couple days and decided that as much as I love the one I had. The last thing I would want to do is get rid of it, only to have one with major issues. It may have been fine... It may just be something that needed reset. I just didn't want to take that chance. Especially given the roller coaster so far. So I kept my 21.

That doesn't change the fact though, that speed limit assist should have some sort of safety or be turned OFF as a default. This was a serious danger to myself and others.


So that's still just part of the story and concern here.

So now we get into March and my Sisters car was supposed to be built. After March I believe, the rebate was cut again down to $3750 due to the new regulations. Hers never made it in time. So she decides it just isn't going to work for her. Missed deadlines, lost incentives...

Then about 10 days ago, there was a new announcement.. Ford cuts the price of the Mach E in different categories as you see in the chart from an article and have probably read, at least many of you. But it was by $4,000 on the GT and $1,000 on the Performance Package specifically for her.
So we get the word today that her car is here. She is excited and ready to get it. She starts prepping her stuff and getting her car ready to trade.

We inquire about why the window sticker has not reflected the recent price changes that happened. Do we need to wait for them to reflect a new price like before in Feb? She wants to buy the car she ordered a long time ago.

So after some investigation, here is what Ford has about it on FMC Dealer...

Ford Mustang Mach-E Ford Playing Number Games? Help us understand the price shuffle.... Has Anyone ACTUALLY seen what is being done? me1 (2)



Looks normal right? Notice Effective Date: "Effective Date - Dealer Invoice Changes will be effective May 3, 2023" and same for MSRP.

It states the price changes to the BASE vehicle and the PACKAGES only, right? Do you see anything to the contrary to additional cost? Other required Options and increases? Am I blind?

If you Google "Mach E Price cut, or discount" do you see anything from Ford press release stating that orders still in process or orders that have NOT arrived will NOT be priced with the updated pricing? Again, the car arrived today and the price cut was May 3rd.


Ok, so after some investigating This is what a Ford Rep provided-

Ford Mustang Mach-E Ford Playing Number Games? Help us understand the price shuffle.... Has Anyone ACTUALLY seen what is being done? me2 (3)

Ford Mustang Mach-E Ford Playing Number Games? Help us understand the price shuffle.... Has Anyone ACTUALLY seen what is being done? me2 (2)



So I'm now looking at this and thinking... Ok, wow. This looks like number games. From a manufacturer. First, according to this, they aren't reducing the price $4,000 on the base car. They are playing with numbers. For future orders placed AFTER April 3rd, you can buy 3 years of Blue Cruise for $2100 as an option on the window sticker. First, that isn't a price reduction, it's taking features out and pricing them separately.
Second, what if we don't care about Blue Cruise for $2100? So in this scenario, you are forced to take it?
The next caveat here is that in this switcharoo type tactic, they are playing numbers games as a dealer would, not a manufacturer. Placing a $2000 rebate, not a discount, adding the $2100 Blue Cruise 3 year subscription to the future order (as if its required) and calling it "A wash" essentially. Also, most states charge SALES tax on rebates. So that $2,000 rebate will cost you $150.

So again, my frustration is that this whole thing for almost a year, between trying to by 2 more vehicles and I buy typically 2 or so a year and with my business more, has been a roller coaster of frustration. I would not expect Ford of all companies to play these numbers games. I don't know or care if they are trying to mimic Tesla, or whoever. If you are a FORD customer, you know. Ford isn't Tesla. Ford doesn't play games like this. Quarter price increases of $250 or $500 for vehicles. We have all seen them. Model year changes and price increases of $2,000 occasionally, we have seen them.
This behavior though is ridiculous. Frankly, with 2 different messages with "effective May 3rd price changes are in effect" dealer invoices and MSRP based on the posted decreases and then a statement showing moving numbers around a statement "Orders Places before May 1st will not be reinvoiced"

So do we just not take the car? Say Shove it up your A** and order a new one all over again at the reduced price? LOL Kinda makes a little more sense.

"Take this one now for X or order another on and you don't need to pay $2100 for blue cruise you wouldn't use anyway and it will be $5,000 less...."

WTH kind of choice is that????

Is this the message you really want to send? I understand it sending refund checks to people who purchased 2 months ago doesn't make sense too, but vehicles in production? If I ordered a vehicle May 2nd and it arrives in November, even AFTER say someone who ordered on May 4th, and theirs got built first. You are saying I should have a higher sticker price? and be forced into a service that I would have had an option on for less $? Whoever thought this up needs to be evaluated.

Thoughts? Opinions? Ford??? Where are you?
 
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MachKet

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I guess I'm confused why you are so shocked, they run a business of making money just like a car dealership does. They were already losing money on old pricing and basically are forced to lower prices again so they have to start with removing the features that are easy to do and not totally necessary for the average Joe and make them add-ons to cover the discounts on some cars. Ford really is in a terrible spot with the mach-e right now, almost need a complete refresh.
 
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JTMACHEGT

JTMACHEGT

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I guess I'm confused why you are so shocked, they run a business of making money just like a car dealership does. They were already losing money on old pricing and basically are forced to lower prices again so they have to start with removing the features that are easy to do and not totally necessary for the average Joe and make them add-ons to cover the discounts on some cars. Ford really is in a terrible spot with the mach-e right now, almost need a complete refresh.
Primarily because we are talking about a vehicle that hasn't been sold. It was ordered and delivered after. So is it our responsibility to bail Ford out?
What I mean by that is, should you or I or any customer feel guilty that, we should pay more in the FUTURE when our car arrives, because they announced new orders will be priced lower.
Is it fair to stick the dealer in the middle and say, keep the car and order a new one at a reduced price and good luck selling the older one for more money.

It just doesn't make sense. Either you change the price on the 24 model, or you put a rebate on all models starting with purchases made after x date. Or make the split with Blue Cruise an option for all non sold orders after May 3rd.

You don't give a choice, for the next 4 months for everyone who has orders in production to pay a higher price because they "should". From any business point of view, it just makes no sense and if anything, it will put them in MORE trouble, because again, I have been in the auto business with Ford for 20 years. People will dump their orders, place new orders and all those cars will sit on lots and then, they will have to give up even more money on cash incentives or rebates to move the old ones. It just isn't a well thought through plan and frankly, I would expect more stability in decision making from Ford from my lifelong experience with them. I say that with love.
 

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Thanks for that, finally confirmation of what will happen with the Job 1 '23 pricing. It will remain at the Jan 30th price level. The $2000 bonus cash should take care of the price difference compared to a Job 2 ordered with BlueCruise.
 

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With all due respect, I don’t know that being a car salesman at a dealer counts as being in the car manufacturing industry or provides you any special insight into manufacturer cost structures.
 


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JTMACHEGT

JTMACHEGT

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With all due respect, I don’t know that being a car salesman at a dealer counts as being in the car manufacturing industry or provides you any special insight into manufacturer cost structures.
No offense either. None taken. Im not looking for confrontation at all. I didn't say I was or wasn't a car salesman. I said I started a Performance division and worked with Ford for over 20 years and purchased them my whole life. I also did work for/with Roush Performance. I also own a multi-million dollar manufacturing and retail auto parts company. I wasn't trying to make it about me. I was just trying to point out that I am not ignorant to the the industry or business tactics and most of all, this isn't the Ford I know and have loved for years.

So I have experience in many avenues. Including materials cost and commodities.
In any retail space, competition, materials cost, etc are fluid. As a business you constantly need to adapt. Trust me. Like I said, I have been a Ford guy my whole life.

What I am talking about though is the way in which it is being handled. I am talking about the Marketing strategy, the layout, the plan. Again, I have with business and marketing experience.

Look if I bought a car on May 1st and they announced a rebate on May 2nd. Sure it would suck. It is the nature of the beast. I get that.. No different than a a sale at any retailer. Maybe I wasn't clear in my points

However, my point was, when you show your hand and say... We are having a SALE for the next 3 months on lets say the Oculus Pro headset. And for all those who have preorders in over those next 3 months, you must take the bundle kit with 3 digital games you don't want and pay for it when it arrives. However, if you place a NEW order, then you can abandon your old order and buy one at the reduced price without the 3 digital games you don't care about. That, from a business standpoint makes zero sense because you will have orders canceled. So why not wait until a new model cycle for a price reduction, or apply it to all unsold units so you don't have a massive dump of upcoming orders. That puts any company in a far worse position.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. My point is, people have a choice and it has been a frustrating experience from the get go. Especially when the last car almost killed me.
 

Mach1E

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No offense either. None taken. Im not looking for confrontation at all. I didn't say I was or wasn't a car salesman. I said I started a Performance division and worked with Ford for over 20 years and purchased them my whole life. I also did work for/with Roush Performance. I also own a multi-million dollar manufacturing and retail auto parts company. I wasn't trying to make it about me. I was just trying to point out that I am not ignorant to the the industry or business tactics and most of all, this isn't the Ford I know and have loved for years.

So I have experience in many avenues. Including materials cost and commodities.
In any retail space, competition, materials cost, etc are fluid. As a business you constantly need to adapt. Trust me. Like I said, I have been a Ford guy my whole life.

What I am talking about though is the way in which it is being handled. I am talking about the Marketing strategy, the layout, the plan. Again, I have with business and marketing experience.

Look if I bought a car on May 1st and they announced a rebate on May 2nd. Sure it would suck. It is the nature of the beast. I get that.. No different than a a sale at any retailer. Maybe I wasn't clear in my points

However, my point was, when you show your hand and say... We are having a SALE for the next 3 months on lets say the Oculus Pro headset. And for all those who have preorders in over those next 3 months, you must take the bundle kit with 3 digital games you don't want and pay for it when it arrives. However, if you place a NEW order, then you can abandon your old order and buy one at the reduced price without the 3 digital games you don't care about. That, from a business standpoint makes zero sense because you will have orders canceled. So why not wait until a new model cycle for a price reduction, or apply it to all unsold units so you don't have a massive dump of upcoming orders. That puts any company in a far worse position.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. My point is, people have a choice and it has been a frustrating experience from the get go. Especially when the last car almost killed me.
Your frustration is understandable. It’s been a hot mess lately. Some is Ford, some are external circumstances and we are caught in the middle.

What should you do? Buy the car if you want it at the current price, or don’t.

And try to ignore all the “principles” right now. There are plenty of reasons to be upset, but you have to decide for yourself if you’ll let them upset you.

But things now are definitely different than anything you’ve seen in your 20 years in the industry. You haven’t seen inflation like this. You haven’t seen supply chain issues like this. You haven’t seen demand outstrip supply like this. You haven’t seen $7500 government incentives show up, disappear, then show up again, then change. You haven’t seen competitors (Tesla) change MSRP so much and so frequently.

So many “never befores” that it’ll keep your head spinning regardless of your experience.
 
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JTMACHEGT

JTMACHEGT

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Your frustration is understandable. It’s been a hot mess lately. Some is Ford, some are external circumstances and we are caught in the middle.

What should you do? Buy the car if you want it at the current price, or don’t.

And try to ignore all the “principles” right now. There are plenty of reasons to be upset, but you have to decide for yourself if you’ll let them upset you.

But things now are definitely different than anything you’ve seen in your 20 years in the industry. You haven’t seen inflation like this. You haven’t seen supply chain issues like this. You haven’t seen demand outstrip supply like this. You haven’t seen $7500 government incentives show up, disappear, then show up again, then change. You haven’t seen competitors (Tesla) change MSRP so much and so frequently.

So many “never befores” that it’ll keep your head spinning regardless of your experience.
Great reply and comments.

BTW, you have great taste in Mach E color.. lol I was always torn between the Grey as well.
 

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Your frustration is understandable. It’s been a hot mess lately. Some is Ford, some are external circumstances and we are caught in the middle.

What should you do? Buy the car if you want it at the current price, or don’t.

And try to ignore all the “principles” right now. There are plenty of reasons to be upset, but you have to decide for yourself if you’ll let them upset you.

But things now are definitely different than anything you’ve seen in your 20 years in the industry. You haven’t seen inflation like this. You haven’t seen supply chain issues like this. You haven’t seen demand outstrip supply like this. You haven’t seen $7500 government incentives show up, disappear, then show up again, then change. You haven’t seen competitors (Tesla) change MSRP so much and so frequently.

So many “never befores” that it’ll keep your head spinning regardless of your experience.
And to add that it is likely Ford is losing a lot of money on each vehicle sold. Probably not $60k per car (as discussed in another thread), but certainly they are looking to sell as many as possible at as high a price as the market will bear. Which is what a responsible car company should do.
 

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Just order a new one and enjoy it! I checked and a '23 GTPE in Canada is only around $85k CAD. '22 models were $92k. That is insane. I'm holding on to my Select until 2026 and see what's out there.
 

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Ford didn’t raise the amount of the car by the amount of the federal tax credit. That would imply that the tax credit didn’t exist for cars bought in 2020, 2021 or 2022. Ford raised the price of the car because their costs went up, plain and simple. Under the old tax credit rules, Ford wouldn’t have lost the full value of the credit until January 1st, 2023. Instead they lost half of it on April 18th.
 
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I personally wouldn’t trade in trim for same trim without a significant model refresh (which hasn’t happened).
 

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Huh, so they are not adjusting the old order to the new price? Hmm, I guess it has to do with the battery price? Since LFP is cheaper. If it is me. I will definitely refuse delivery. But it is only because I have no money.

If I am buying an EV today, at current price point I would definitely go with a Model Y Performance. Even though I like MME design better, the $$ difference is significant.

Well OP, you definitely seem loaded. Shouldn't you ditch Ford and look at some premium options from Porsche, BMW or Mercedes?
 

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Huh, so they are not adjusting the old order to the new price? Hmm, I guess it has to do with the battery price? Since LFP is cheaper. If it is me. I will definitely refuse delivery. But it is only because I have no money.

If I am buying an EV today, at current price point I would definitely go with a Model Y Performance. Even though I like MME design better, the $$ difference is significant.

Well OP, you definitely seem loaded. Shouldn't you ditch Ford and look at some premium options from Porsche, BMW or Mercedes?
Who knows? Ford has adjusted for people many times in the past.

Now if you’re getting the regular 23 and not the 23.5 with the different battery, you can’t be expected to pay the same price. They’re different cars.
 

reeflife

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Ford didn’t raise the amount of the car by the amount of the federal tax credit. That would imply that the tax credit didn’t exist for cars bought in 2020, 2021 or 2022. Ford raised the price of the car because their costs went up, plain and simple. Under the old tax credit rules, Ford wouldn’t have lost the full value of the credit until April 1st, 2023. Instead they lost half of it on April 18th.
They did! An old saying! “Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered!” They were selling well until boom! August 2022 Inflation reduction Act! To funny! It really was the opposite! As soon as people realized they might not get the $7500 because the IRS had these SUV and Car measurement rules. Consumers said forget this EV. The lack of sales and used market fell were not part of marketing plan. Ford really wanted to start leasing these and boom Tesla and fed messed it up by allowing the $7500 and large price drops on Teslas. Ford was a leader in the car industry but now we know it’s Tesla leading charge! Ford has to understand what Tesla knows, and Ford forgot. Volume is how to make it work! $80k-$110k EVs are not inline with the customer base. Someone making $15-$20 an hour can barely pay for a place to live! $1000 to $1500 car payments are not functional economics. Sorry but the economies of scale are way off! I really believe Ford can fix this but they have lower prices and produce vehicles and manage to get cost down. I believe Ford saw the $$$ and went for it and was caught by the consumer market.
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