FORD PRO CEO SAYS LFP BATTERIES WILL BE 10 PERCENT CHEAPER

roamtheworld

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https://fordauthority.com/2023/01/ford-pro-ceo-says-lfp-batteries-will-be-10-percent-cheaper/
As Ford Authority reported last year, some Blue Oval EVs will soon trade their lithium-ion battery packs for lithium-iron phosphate units, which don’t use nickel or cobalt in their construction and are generally cheaper, safer, and can be charged to 100 percent without worrying about speeding up battery degradation, though they’re also not as energy dense as lithium-ion batteries. However, it was previously unclear just how much cheaper Ford’s LFP batteries will be when compared to traditional lithium-ion units, at least until now.
“The battery process, later this year, next year, we’re launching LFP onto the Mustang Mach-E, and the the Lightning,” said Ford Pro CEO Ted Cannis while speaking at the recent Evercore Utility Conference. “Roughly 10-to-15 percent less cost. Not as dense chemistry, but allows for more more durability, more cycles, so it looks like a good solution for those customers who are not looking for all the density and longer range of NCM. That’s a big opportunity.”

As Ford Authority previously reported, the Ford Mustang Mach-E is set to receive LFP battery packs starting in 2023, while the Ford F-150 Lightning will follow in 2024. FoMoCo’s other EV – the E-Transit – will continue to be sold with a lithium-ion battery pack for the foreseeable future, however. The automaker plans on producing 270,000 Mach-E crossovers and 150,000 F-150 Lightning pickups in 2023, and this particular switch will reportedly enable it to reach that goal. Additionally, the automaker expects to continue utilizing LFP packs into the next decade.

The lower costs of LFP batteries makes them quite attractive in light of the skyrocketing costs of raw materials over the past several months, including lithium, which tripled in price over the past year to reach a new all-time high last October. As a result, the F-150 Lightning has received multiple price increases over that same time frame, as has the Mustang Mach-E.
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Jimrpa

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What is the energy density of a lithium ion battery versus a lithium iron phosphate battery? Is there a measure of what the comparable weight/volume per kilowatt hour of each is?
 
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roamtheworld

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What is the energy density of a lithium ion battery versus a lithium iron phosphate battery? Is there a measure of what the comparable weight/volume per kilowatt hour of each is?
Many sites have papers, YouTube videos and stories covering this topic but this is a good starting point.
https://www.lithium-battery-factory.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-vs-lithium-ion/
Major advantages of Lithium Iron Phosphate:

● Very safe and secure technology (No Thermal Runaway)

● Very low toxicity for the environment (use of iron, graphite, and phosphate)

● Calendar life > 10 ans

● Cycle life: from 2000 to several thousand (see chart below)

● Operational temperature range: up to 70°C

● Very low internal resistance. Stability or even decline over the cycles.

● Constant power throughout the discharge range

● Ease of recycling

● Life-cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate technology (LiFePO4)
 


Jimrpa

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Many sites have papers, YouTube videos and stories covering this topic but this is a good starting point.
https://www.lithium-battery-factory.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-vs-lithium-ion/
Major advantages of Lithium Iron Phosphate:

● Very safe and secure technology (No Thermal Runaway)

● Very low toxicity for the environment (use of iron, graphite, and phosphate)

● Calendar life > 10 ans

● Cycle life: from 2000 to several thousand (see chart below)

● Operational temperature range: up to 70°C

● Very low internal resistance. Stability or even decline over the cycles.

● Constant power throughout the discharge range

● Ease of recycling

● Life-cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate technology (LiFePO4)
Thanks. That’s all interesting information, but not the answer to the question I asked. For example, the SR battery pack weighs 485 kg and has a capacity of 75.7 KWH. So, we can ROUGHLY say that Lithium Ion batteries have a capacity of 0.156 KWH / kg. I’d like to know the equivalent number for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
I wasn’t able to find the dimensions of the SR battery, but I’d also like to compute KWH / volume and find out the KWH / volume for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
 

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Major advantages of Lithium Iron Phosphate:

● Very safe and secure technology (No Thermal Runaway)
Safer but saying "No Thermal Runaway" is complete BS. Higher flashpoint for sure.
 
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roamtheworld

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Thanks. That’s all interesting information, but not the answer to the question I asked. For example, the SR battery pack weighs 485 kg and has a capacity of 75.7 KWH. So, we can ROUGHLY say that Lithium Ion batteries have a capacity of 0.156 KWH / kg. I’d like to know the equivalent number for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
I wasn’t able to find the dimensions of the SR battery, but I’d also like to compute KWH / volume and find out the KWH / volume for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
Research CATL or BYD batteries as they are the primary producers of LFP and are in cars today.
Tesla Model 3 RWD made in China or BYD Han (or any EV since they all use LFP blade battery)
 

Jimrpa

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Research CATL or BYD batteries as they are the primary producers of LFP and are in cars today.
Tesla Model 3 RWD made in China or BYD Han (or any EV since they all use LFP blade battery)
No thanks. I’m not interested enough to engage in an in-depth research project. I was just asking a question in case anyone happened to have, what to me would seem to be easily accessible information. Apparently not, so I’ll move on.
 

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No thanks. I’m not interested enough to engage in an in-depth research project. I was just asking a question in case anyone happened to have, what to me would seem to be easily accessible information. Apparently not, so I’ll move on.
Jim,

We will hopefully be able to determine this value using real world Mustang Mach-E numbers later this year.

Once the standard range pack switches over and consumers see the curb weight figures, we can deduce the battery pack weight.

With any luck, Ford will publish the rated energy capacity in the tech specs, in a press release, or via a behind-the-tech video or something. 🤞
 
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roamtheworld

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No thanks. I’m not interested enough to engage in an in-depth research project. I was just asking a question in case anyone happened to have, what to me would seem to be easily accessible information. Apparently not, so I’ll move on.
As noted by @macchiaz-o we will have to wait for real data from Ford but here is some data for a Tesla using the latest LFP battery.
Google is your friend 🤯
https://insideevs.com/news/563125/tesla-model3-60kwh-winter-range/
The latest Made-in-China (MIC) Tesla Model 3 RWD (former Standard Range Plus/SR+) with about a 60 kWh LFP lithium-ion battery shines in Bjørn Nyland's range test.

The car has about a 60.5 kWh battery, out of which - according to the updated reading by the ScanMyTesla app - 57.5 kWh is usable. That's over 9% more than previously.

  • Capacity of the full pack (when new): 60.5 kWh (kind of initial/theoretical value)
  • Nominal full pack capacity: 60.4 kWh (total; net + buffer) vs 55.3 kWh (+9.2%)
  • Energy buffer: 2.7 kWh or 4.5% vs 2.5 kWh or 4.5% previously
    (between the current nominal value and usable value)
  • Usable full pack capacity: 57.5 kWh (net) vs 52.6 kWh previously
    * at "101% SOC" the ScanMyTesla app shown 58.4 kWh usable, out of 61.1 kWh nominal remaining (the values happens to fluctuate depending on various factors, and should be treated like a good estimate, rather than a perfect value).
 

Blue highway

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It sounds like they’ll put the same size battery (by weight) in the SR and it will have a lower range.
yes this.... ^^^

For the masses, The future is more charging stations, not longer range EVs.... because of lower cost and more idiot proof chemistry.
 
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roamtheworld

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yes this.... ^^^

For the masses, The future is more charging stations, not longer range EVs.... because of lower cost and more idiot proof chemistry.
Agreed
Small changes in weight will mean slightly less range but 100% charge capability and chemistry that uses less scarce materials is a good tradeoff IMO.
 

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The question then becomes, does Ford adjust the charging curve so that the LFP battery charges quicker, making it worthwhile for someone to stay at a charging station to hit close to 100% SOC.
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