FordPass deal with Electrify America?

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silverelan

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50kW CHAdeMO is neat for your Model 3, any other Tesla with an adapter or the few old style EVs that use the CHAdeMO standard.

Since the Mustang Mach-E uses CCS, the 50kW CHAdeMO charger is about as relevant as a v3 250kW Supercharger.

The Kona should take the top rate of what it is technically capable of, regardless of who does the billing for the energy delivered. By your logic, the Mustang Mach-E should be capped at 125kW charging.

Kudos to Hyundai and EA for working out a deal. Sounds like KIA Niro EV owners will soon get relief and I'm optimistic we'll see something beyond EA Pass+ pricing for the MME.
 

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Remember Ford is staking it’s entire future on electric cars.
I dunno about that. They are definitely investing wholeheartedly in BEV's but clearly they expect ICEs or hybrids to be their main revenue stream through at least 2026 per that article circulated a week or so ago. I can see them including EA membership+ in Fordpass and that being free for a year or two with car purchase, but subsidizing a discount charging rate feels like a chip they won't cash in unless they have to. If BEV sales are horrible and feedback tells them it is because of on-the-road charging cost I can see them doing it, but all of their literature and comments from executives show that they believe that home charging will be by far the norm. The fact that slower charging is better for the health of the battery leads me to believe that indeed they want to encourage owners to charge with L2 AC at home anyway, so DCFC subsidies would be a bad plan.

I have no information regarding this other than intuition, but it feels like Ford will prefer to save money by not subsidizing DCFC - which can also potentially indirectly save them more money on battery warranty repairs.
 

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I dunno about that. They are definitely investing wholeheartedly in BEV's but clearly they expect ICEs or hybrids to be their main revenue stream through at least 2026 per that article circulated a week or so ago. I can see them including EA membership+ in Fordpass and that being free for a year or two with car purchase, but subsidizing a discount charging rate feels like a chip they won't cash in unless they have to. If BEV sales are horrible and feedback tells them it is because of on-the-road charging cost I can see them doing it, but all of their literature and comments from executives show that they believe that home charging will be by far the norm. The fact that slower charging is better for the health of the battery leads me to believe that indeed they want to encourage owners to charge with L2 AC at home anyway, so DCFC subsidies would be a bad plan.

I have no information regarding this other than intuition, but it feels like Ford will prefer to save money by not subsidizing DCFC - which can also potentially indirectly save them more money on battery warranty repairs.
when you invest $11 BILLION and both the Mach E and ELECTRIC F150 for likely the commercial use that tells me that this is your future. I remember reading on this forum that while Covid-19 is running Ford is prioritizing these two vehicles ahead of the others. As far as ICE goes they are also introducing more hybrids. I see this as getting customers to move slowly away from ICE to BEV. It is the middle ground. Once customers get used to charging they will go BEV. As they are investing in EA they are NOT going to wait and see if it is accepted. They will make it work from the beginning. In RVERYindependent article that I have read it stresses that Ford wants BEV to succeed. So much so that in a recent article it stated something to the effect that orders for the MachE are 30,000 to almost sold out based on reservations only. As Ford CEO stated there WILL be a profit in EVERY Mach E made.With the exception of both Ford and VW who currently both own EA and now Hyundai stepping in the rest only do BEV to keep the EPA happy. It is not their main agenda. THOSE companies are the ones waiting to see how both EA, Ford and VW do. Tesla was way ahead of the learning curve and as such could get by without ever changing their body style year after year. Now with heavy competition from Ford and VW will Tesla keep the same body style or will they now be forced to spend much more moneychanging small aspects to capture new customers?

in summary I look at both VW and Ford trying to get into the Bev market faster and staking their claim before GM and others say hold on we need to compete. I talked to a Lexus rep at the LA car show and sake them about BEV. Their comment was we have nothing going on right now. Maybe in 5 years. I see this as the attitude of everyone but Ford and VW. By 5 years you are way behind and making the assumption that people look at range anxiety as something that Americans will fear. If Ford is VERY successful and yes EA is a HUGE part of that success then the others just lost playing high stakes poker.
 

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Absolutely public charging is a prerequisite to sell BEVs - but that is not what we are discussing. EA and others already meet that minimum requirement, and their networks are expanding regardless of whether Ford subsidizes Mach E owner's charging costs. Any subsidies would have to come from somewhere, and Ford sure isn't going to eat the cost out of their profits. While I would love for Ford to work a deal for $.25/minute, I don't want to have to pay thousands more for the car for the few times a year I will actually use a public charger.

The clear expectation from Ford is for people to PREDOMINANTLY charge at home. Where EA and other public charging comes into play is in the far less frequent case, and whether Ford subsidizes charging rates or not people will still charge publicly if they have to. The question Ford's bean counters have to answer is if people will buy something else based on the cost of those infrequent cases, and if so what price is "just low enough" for potential buyers not to walk away.

And of course Ford wants their electric vehicles to succeed - but that is a very different thing than EV's being the PRIMARY revenue stream. It will be more than 5 years from now before EV's are their primary revenue stream, and certainly ONLY BEVs require charging on the road. The whole point of a PHEV is that you can run on gas when doing road trips, making public DCFC charging redundant - filling a gas tank is far faster and more convenient. The article I referred to stated that Ford expects to sell around 500,000 EV's in 2026, which is a fraction of the vehicles that will have a gas engine.
 

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Because EA is just one of many charging station providers around the world where Hyundai sells the vehicle.

Hyundai sets their charging curve where they think it's best for the vehicle. Just as they should. If one charging station company has goofy pricing that just happens to have a tier price level just below the Kona, that's the charging company's issue. Not Hyundai's.

But having said that... manufacturers adding a user-configurable option to set their own (lower) max charge rate isn't a bad idea. That way you could set it to 75 yourself if you wanted.
 
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dbsb3233

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when you invest $11 BILLION and both the Mach E and ELECTRIC F150 for likely the commercial use that tells me that this is your future.
It's PART of their future. A pretty small part, actually. But it will gradually increase over time.

Odds are BEVs won't be more than 10% of Ford sales by 2025. Their bigger push is into PHEVs. But even those two probably won't combine for more than 20% of Ford's sales by mid-decade. It'll still be mostly ICE.

By 2030, maybe 50-50.
 

dbsb3233

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If Ford is VERY successful and yes EA is a HUGE part of that success then the others just lost playing high stakes poker.
I'm not sure why you think any other manufacturers can't just start making their own BEVs later, and compete just fine for sales?

That's exactly what Ford is doing now. Tesla dominated the "first wave" of BEVs (the last decade). Now that batteries are good enough to provide 200+ miles at a more reasonable price, others like Ford and VW and Volvo are starting to make a few as well. The Mach-e will probably be a good seller, even though it came along a decade after Tesla's been doing it. Ford has the advantage of starting with today's technology, not 2010's. Similarly with VW and Volvo. And with GM's new BEVs starting around 2023. No doubt Toyota will start making some within 5 years too.

There's nothing really special about making a BEV. In fact, it's easier than making an ICE vehicle. It's just a different (simpler) drivetrain. And legacy automakers are quite good at making the rest of the vehicle already.
 

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I'm not sure why you think any other manufacturers can't just start making their own BEVs later, and compete just fine for sales?

That's exactly what Ford is doing now. Tesla dominated the "first wave" of BEVs (the last decade). Now that batteries are good enough to provide 200+ miles at a more reasonable price, others like Ford and VW and Volvo are starting to make a few as well. The Mach-e will probably be a good seller, even though it came along a decade after Tesla's been doing it. Ford has the advantage of starting with today's technology, not 2010's. Similarly with VW and Volvo. And with GM's new BEVs starting around 2023. No doubt Toyota will start making some within 5 years too.

There's nothing really special about making a BEV. In fact, it's easier than making an ICE vehicle. It's just a different (simpler) drivetrain. And legacy automakers are quite good at making the rest of the vehicle already.
you are right. Yes others can just jump into the market. My point is who is first or rather who dominates it makes the most money. For example. The kids who jumped on the YouTube platform first make the most money. Others have come along and tried but it is the first ones who are making a fortune the rest not so much. The same theory holds for BEVs. Tesla owned the market. Now Ford and Vw are jumping into the arena. Tesla is now being challenged for the first time by two huge manufacturers. These two are taking in the biggest reason why customers stay with ICE....Range Anxiety. You are correct of course most people will charge at home. However if all you do is drive around town then it makes zero financial sense to even consider buying a BEV. The way to convert the mind set of BEV over ICE has zero to do with charging at home. It comes down to economics. Unless you drive say 20,000 plus miles a year the cost difference between ICE and BEV makes sense to stay with ICE I driver 25,000 miles a year in 2 separate cars. With me now comes the question of the price of gas versus electricity. Most of my charging will still be at home however I need to know that those few times that I need to charge are totally accessible. I am not talking time but I am talking just the concept of being able to pull off of the road and charge up for a reasonable price. If Ford and VW Evan change the mind set of Range Anxiety then BEV will totally dominate the market place.ICE is antiquated technology. Just like cable tv replaced tv antennas and now the millennials are going to straight streaming and putting cable and satellite tv systems to task. In the case of tv watchingit is decreasing by over 20% today in the younger markets versus several years ago. Simply put younger generations are into a new way of thinking. This is THE why BEV will become the new standard. Let’s be real. BEVs are essentially geek cars. It is a different part of the brain that makes people buy a BEV. Tesla says it better. Driving a BEV is a different experience then driving an ICE car. Both Ford and VW are basing their futures on the concept of gaining the new generation who are looking towards the future. 5 years will be too late to gain the real money just like Youtubers. Tesla will also have to figure out how to compete where there was no serious competition previously. Assumi g the Mach E is successful and they come out with a Shelby version the BEV will be king. Once the Electric F150 comes out going after the commercial market and Shelby going after the high performance market ICE vehicles will begin to be looked at as old technology and the desire for them will start to die just as antennae tv has. It exists but insignificantly.
 

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Good point. But Apple is making their money off if the cellular market not the computer one while Microsoft the original still dominates. There are always exceptions but generally speaking the first makes the most. Ford was one of the first to introduce a new version every year that was slightly different. GM and the others figured that out later. Ford was the only big auto mfg to not have to take government money to stay in business. I still think as a whole the first to dominate tends to rule.
 

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Ford was the first to dominate the motor vehicle market a century ago. Doesn't mean GM and Chrysler didn't sell a ton when they entered the market. Whoever makes the vehicles (including BEVs) consumers really want at competitive prices will sell a bunch. Regardless of manufacturer.
 

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Ford was the first to dominate the motor vehicle market a century ago. Doesn't mean GM and Chrysler didn't sell a ton when they entered the market. Whoever makes the vehicles (including BEVs) consumers really want at competitive prices will sell a bunch. Regardless of manufacturer.
very true. I think that is THE why Ford is using the mustang name.
 

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