Ford's electric-Mustang boss takes swipe at Tesla quality issues

JamieGeek

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Its 2020 everyone is hanging out on the internet--that is all we have!!


(I was lucky: The 2012 Focus we had didn't have any serious trans issues. Sure it was a bit jerky but to me it simply felt like a manual which happened to be computer controlled instead of driver controlled--my wife hated driving it even though she started driving it around after we got the 2013 Focus Electric LOL.)
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malba2366

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Well, generally speaking Ford takes ownership of their screwups and addresses them. Sure at times it takes them longer to detect the issues or retrofit solutions, but they at least correct the design/manufacturing issues going forward. Tesla has had the SAME QC issues for years and since Tesla continues to ignore the problems they reoccur year after year. Ford is also absolutely right that using customers as guinea pigs for self driving is unethical and dangerous for Tesla's longterm survival.
Look at the list below and you can see some of these recalls covered over 10 years of vehicles. It doesn't include the Ford/Firestone Fiasco and the DCT mess. Yes these were all a long time ago, but Ford doesn't exactly have a clean history. My point is that this guy should focus on more constructive activities than trolling Tesla. Maybe a lesson to Ford management would be to take a cue from Elon Musk's response when Ford chose to unveil the Mach E right in front of Space X HQ.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...est-car-recalls-in-american-history/index.htm
 
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trutolife27

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Look at the list below and you can see some of these recalls covered over 10 years of vehicles. It doesn't include the Ford/Firestone Fiasco and the DCT mess. Yes these were all a long time ago, but Ford doesn't exactly have a clean history. My point is that this guy should focus on more constructive activities than trolling Tesla. Maybe a lesson to Ford management would be to take a cue from Elon Musk's response when Ford chose to unveil the Mach E right in front of Space X HQ.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...est-car-recalls-in-american-history/index.htm
Some things the average person won't know what has been said behind closed doors or calls. ;)
The Recalls yep, everyone has them fact. Companies have problems and trends go up and down. But when You try to compare an EV to Ice recall or problems, it's not on the same playing field. Most people can understand that is not apples to apples. Trying to compare parts like engine and transmission to paint and fit and finish problems lol. With Ice, you're talking 5 to 7 times the amount of parts. So basic math like monro said a BEV vehicle should have 7 times fewer problems than an ice. We are not seeing that with tesla.

yes, we won't know what the mache will be but I will hedge my beat better than tesla.
 
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timbop

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Look at the list below and you can see some of these recalls covered over 10 years of vehicles. It doesn't include the Ford/Firestone Fiasco and the DCT mess. Yes these were all a long time ago, but Ford doesn't exactly have a clean history. My point is that this guy should focus on more constructive activities than trolling Tesla. Maybe a lesson to Ford management would be to take a cue from Elon Musk's response when Ford chose to unveil the Mach E right in front of Space X HQ.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...est-car-recalls-in-american-history/index.htm
Yes, I am aware of the problems Ford has had. Yes, I understand your position about "higher ground". Keeping silent doesn't always work, particularly when your opponent has acolytes that are highly vocal and influential. Hillary Clinton took the higher ground all the way to the unemployment line. Ford isn't going to make that mistake.

I don't fully agree with your position even though I understand why you feel that way. We're going to have to agree to disagree.
 

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Yes, I can see it as a turnoff. I think the reason he's doing it is because the stock answer to the question "what BEV should I get?" is "Tesla". Ford needs to change that, and attacking Tesla in it's weakest spot makes sense. Ford can't yet beat them in range or efficiency, but they certainly can outmanufacture them.



Well, generally speaking Ford takes ownership of their screwups and addresses them. Sure at times it takes them longer to detect the issues or retrofit solutions, but they at least correct the design/manufacturing issues going forward. Tesla has had the SAME QC issues for years and since Tesla continues to ignore the problems they reoccur year after year. Ford is also absolutely right that using customers as guinea pigs for self driving is unethical and dangerous for Tesla's longterm survival.
One word: Pinto
 

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One word: Pinto
The Pinto was a middle of the road subcompact in its time. People think it was a deathtrap, and it may have been, but it wasn't as bad as many. According to NHTSA, for 1975 vehicles, the Pinto was responsible for 298 deaths per million cars. That was slightly above the Chevrolet Vega (288) and Datsun 510 (294) but considerably below the Datsun 1200 (392), the Toyota Corolla (333), and the VW Beetle (378).
 

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The Pinto was a middle of the road subcompact in its time. People think it was a deathtrap, and it may have been, but it wasn't as bad as many. According to NHTSA, for 1975 vehicles, the Pinto was responsible for 298 deaths per million cars. That was slightly above the Chevrolet Vega (288) and Datsun 510 (294) but considerably below the Datsun 1200 (392), the Toyota Corolla (333), and the VW Beetle (378).
The Pinto was not that bad because Ford used its platform to create the Mustang II in 1974 and it was a success.
 

DBC

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My point is that this guy should focus on more constructive activities than trolling Tesla.
I doubt I would have bothered pointing out Tesla's quality problems, but doing so is hardly objectionable. It's just Marketing 101. If you think you have better build quality than a competitor OF COURSE you are going to talk about this and OF COURSE you should talk about it. Isn't that the point of all those ads that Toyota runs about how many miles people have put on their vehicles?

As far as having nothing to brag about on the quality front, any manufacturer can brag if compared to Tesla. Tesla is at the absolute bottom, the worst team in the league so to speak. It's even worse than Land Rover which in some ways is quite the accomplishment. Even more amazing is that the issues aren't with new tech -- which would be understandable -- but basic build quality.

It's just particularly touchy to see that kind of attitude when for some of us, we remember that attitude being used to justify Ford *not* fixing our cars.
Your point might be better if we weren't talking about Tesla, which has taken the "it's not our fault the car if fine" to a new higher level. LOL
 

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I just wish they'd be less cocky. Not a single Mach-E has been sold yet. Sure, I don't think we're gonna have bumpers falling off, roofs flying off, etc. but that doesn't excuse talking like this publicly either. Ford should be taking the high ground.

This attitude does *NOT* attract me as a customer, it repels me. Arrogance is not attractive. It's just tempting some catastrophic issue and the choruses of people quoting him later.
I do agree with this, at least wait several months after the launch.

As an aside, I think the analogy to the iPhone Darren Palmer talks about in that interview is spot on. I also think that like smartphones, electric cars are going to go from a niche product that have been around for years (like PalmPilots were before iPhones) to rapidly become something that is the norm in the segment.
 

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I do agree with this, at least wait several months after the launch.

As an aside, I think the analogy to the iPhone Darren Palmer talks about in that interview is spot on. I also think that like smartphones, electric cars are going to go from a niche product that have been around for years (like PalmPilots were before iPhones) to rapidly become something that is the norm in the segment.
Oh for sure - EVs are quickly becoming the no brainer answer for many people, we'll be in a majority EV world by the end of the decade, no question in my mind.
 
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I just wish they'd be less cocky. Not a single Mach-E has been sold yet. Sure, I don't think we're gonna have bumpers falling off, roofs flying off, etc. but that doesn't excuse talking like this publicly either. Ford should be taking the high ground.

This attitude does *NOT* attract me as a customer, it repels me. Arrogance is not attractive. It's just tempting some catastrophic issue and the choruses of people quoting him later.
This. Fords quality is only minimally higher than Tesla currently. I know Ford’s intention is for the MachE to be a new standard for quality for the company. Early reviews point to some success in this respect and I hope this is true. Palmer must be confident it is. I hope so or Ford will get raked.
 

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Oh, I get it - and I was thinking of the Focus' issues when I wrote "generally". I had a Focus that didn't have the issues, but I can certainly see where you'd be turned off by Ford for life after that experience. I know I probably would be.
For a different take, I bought my daughter a 2012 Fiesta which had the same dual clutch transmission failure as the Focus. Ford, actually made right on this and took care of it, even when normal warranty had lapsed. Impressed me as a customer. Way more customer responsive than Toyota, a company that absolutely refuses to acknowledge any thing is wrong with any of the cars they produce.
 

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I think there are so many positives about the mache that they dont need to sell it using a negative reference to their main competition.
Yes, I would agree.

Elon could easily send a tweet out in response bragging about how he delivered more humans to the Space Station this year than Ford delivered Mach Es to customers.

If Ford has extra time on the their hands to talk about their competition, maybe that time would be better spent communicating with their own customers. Customers who have been waiting, and waiting without so much as an email from Ford.
 

malba2366

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I think there are so many positives about the mache that they dont need to sell it using a negative reference to their main competition.


Exactly...they don't want to go down this rabbit hole with Elon Musk. When Ford has a few small problems with the Mach E, Elon could easily blow up social media and everyone from potential buyers to the wall street crowd will be paying attention. I guarantee that a lot more people pay attention to what Elon posts on twitter, than every single executive at Ford combined. Elon can cause a lot more harm to Ford, then Ford can cause to Tesla with these internet trolling posts. So Far, Elon has been very complementary of Ford's efforts despite now two thinly veiled attempts to troll Tesla.
 
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