Zer0t

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Ford can only say they sell way more vehicles made in the united states than tesla and also build way more also. Maybe that doesn't fit your narrative though.

If you think Elon didn't throw shades to start back in the day your crazy. Everyone gives him props for helping move the EV movement. But again he didn't do it alone, plenty of help. As far as the EV leader. The gap keeps getting smaller and smaller each year. I seem to think the lighting is coming to the market before the cyber truck if I'm correct.
I have no narrative. Just facts, while I enjoy the mustang the Tesla is still superior. It suffers from no limitations on power delivery, increased range and better charging.

the mustang is more stylish and has better interior and ride quality than the Y (direct competition).

Tesla sold 310,000 EVs in the 1st quarter and ford 430,000 cars in the first quarter of which a fraction were EVs (6734 Mach-E). Thus, Ford is just getting in the EV game and Tesla is the EV game right now.

im not a Tesla fanboy or Iā€™d have bought another. I like my Taycan better than the Model S I traded in for it. However, the difference between the S and Taycan is muc less. The Taycan does a few things better than the Sā€”like the charging speed.

Iā€™m just stating facts. Tesla is the benchmark that everyone is trying to unseat. The F150 is a great achievement and much important than the MME for Fordā€™s electric future. However, they, and others, are still playing catch up.
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Zer0t

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I remember Elon's reaction on Mach-E announcement, saying something like "who wants a car assembled in Mexico, you want an American made car." Soon after that he moved production to China šŸ˜…
Youā€™ve omitted heā€™s moved production to china for cars made for the Chinese market. Itā€™s really not quite the same is it?
 
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Mach1E

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I judge the Man/company by what they do not what they say. So far tesla has made EVs a viable replacement for ICE cars, still has tones of downsides, but viable. He singlehandedly privatize space transport, no easy task.

So as far as I'm concern, he can send out a tweet that may ruffle a few feathers, and to be honest, I can't even say that those tweets were "mean." Juvenile, sure, but Bully, I just don't see it. Not when compared to all the vitriol that's floating online.
You really canā€™t see how these things are the same?

Ford put out an ad that jabs at Musk.

Musk says and tweets things that jab at other companies and other individuals.

Itā€™s the same freaking nonsenseā€¦ā€¦. But you criticize Ford for it and praise Musk for it!

FWIW, my ā€œBullyā€ comment earlier was tongue in cheek.

Bottom line? Musk regularly says things way worse than what was said about him in this ad. He doesnā€™t deserve being defended in this case.
 

H.Bergeron

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Talking smack when you take 8-12 months to deliver a car is not a good look. Focus on making cars instead of snarky videos Ford.
 


trutolife27

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I have no narrative. Just facts, while I enjoy the mustang the Tesla is still superior. It suffers from no limitations on power delivery, increased range and better charging.

the mustang is more stylish and has better interior and ride quality than the Y (direct competition).

Tesla sold 310,000 EVs in the 1st quarter and ford 430,000 cars in the first quarter of which a fraction were EVs (6734 Mach-E). Thus, Ford is just getting in the EV game and Tesla is the EV game right now.

im not a Tesla fanboy or Iā€™d have bought another. I like my Taycan better than the Model S I traded in for it. However, the difference between the S and Taycan is muc less. The Taycan does a few things better than the Sā€”like the charging speed.

Iā€™m just stating facts. Tesla is the benchmark that everyone is trying to unseat. The F150 is a great achievement and much important than the MME for Fordā€™s electric future. However, they, and others, are still playing catch up.
Saying the tesla is superior is only your opinion and narrative, but maybe you don't understand the proper meaning of that.

Again you brought up coming into the market well to be on equal footing at that point in time you compare each company's first year. Took a way longer time for Tesla to ramp up than the mache.

Yes, mass-production of BEV, tesla did push the envelope. Now with the other car companies having all the tools already catching up and passing is going to be quicker than even Elon thought. He has even said as much when he was quoted saying it would be 2032 before a company would out sale tesla. Now he thinks it could as quick as 2025.

pretty much anytime someone starts off I'm not a Tesla fanboy sums up aka I'm a tesla fanboy. Which is fine and great. But superior I think not.
tesla started selling in what 2008. so 14 years. You don't think ford can average selling 310,000 BEV in a quarter in 14 years? If your going to compare make sure you compare right. Is tesla selling more now? yes, big head start. As far as catching up, it's really smaller than you think. If we are using your way of thinking then man Telsa is sad they are already playing catch up to the superior ford BEV truck. How did a company catch up and laugh their way past the all-mighty tesla and beat them to the BEV truck game.

You know what with your way of thinking yeah it is sad they beat tesla and now "FORD" is the benchmark in the BEV truck game.

Now as far as Elon as a bully...... He has some pretty well know blow-ups and temper throwing fits. Even firing whole groups of people while his narcissistic ways have always been known. Do I think Elon does some great things? very much so. But the dude is an ass and he has even said it himself about himself but shrugs it off with ehhh oh well. But again he didn't start tesla for the people in the back.
 

Zer0t

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Saying the tesla is superior is only your opinion and narrative, but maybe you don't understand the proper meaning of that.

Again you brought up coming into the market well to be on equal footing at that point in time you compare each company's first year. Took a way longer time for Tesla to ramp up than the mache.

Yes, mass-production of BEV, tesla did push the envelope. Now with the other car companies having all the tools already catching up and passing is going to be quicker than even Elon thought. He has even said as much when he was quoted saying it would be 2032 before a company would out sale tesla. Now he thinks it could as quick as 2025.

pretty much anytime someone starts off I'm not a Tesla fanboy sums up aka I'm a tesla fanboy. Which is fine and great. But superior I think not.
tesla started selling in what 2008. so 14 years. You don't think ford can average selling 310,000 BEV in a quarter in 14 years? If your going to compare make sure you compare right. Is tesla selling more now? yes, big head start. As far as catching up, it's really smaller than you think. If we are using your way of thinking then man Telsa is sad they are already playing catch up to the superior ford BEV truck. How did a company catch up and laugh their way past the all-mighty tesla and beat them to the BEV truck game.

You know what with your way of thinking yeah it is sad they beat tesla and now "FORD" is the benchmark in the BEV truck game.

Now as far as Elon as a bully...... He has some pretty well know blow-ups and temper throwing fits. Even firing whole groups of people while his narcissistic ways have always been known. Do I think Elon does some great things? very much so. But the dude is an ass and he has even said it himself about himself but shrugs it off with ehhh oh well. But again he didn't start tesla for the people in the back.
If you can refute the three items I gave as the what Tesla is better at then please do so.

Tesla suffer from no power throttling, a sign that they have superior battery management. Why else would the MME have the 5 second limit?

Tesla has a better charging curve and a higher peak charging speed. Most likely again from more mature battery tech.

Tesla has better range.

These are items that are published and discussed facts, not my opinion or narrative. These are also the the items most discussed here as something owners would like to see changed.

I couldā€™ve bought another Y or 3 for less money than MME GTPE but I didnā€™t. Fanboy?

The Porsche is a stronger S competitor than MME is Y competitor. I chose the Porsche when replacing my S because it achieved a competitive range, it drives and handles better (subjective), had a far better interior (subjective), infotainment not nearly as good as the Tesla (not a fan of PCM slow and laggy), has faster peak charging speeds and curve. The Taycan broke its previous canon ball run record.

The Taycan 4S sold for just a bit more than the same plaid S. That doesnā€™t seem consistent with fanboy behavior.

The only opinions I offered is that the MME has superior styling and ride quality.

As far as pretending to know anything about me, thatā€™s ridiculous conjecture on your part. I have three battery electric vehicles of which one is a Tesla. Which kind of blows up your fanboy accusation and really just points to objectivity.

As far as Ford being the benchmark in the truck BEV market that remains to be seen. Theyā€™re going to deliver F150s long before the Cybertruck. In fact who knows if/ when the Cybertruck will ever happen.

One would hope given the importance of the F150 to the Ford brand that theyā€™ll nail it. Iā€™m looking forward to the press embargo being lifted next and reading the reviews. Iā€™m not sure if it should be compared to the Rivian but it most likely will. Iā€˜my guessing till there is a Tesla and Silverado offering thereā€™s no either vehicle to compare to.

What I am looking most forward to is taking delivery of my Lariat max range 6-6-2022 build Lightning. I out in the preorder not having any idea if/ when it would happen. I also preordered a hummer, Tesla and Silverado. However, Ford looks like a great offering and is the bird in hand.

The Hummer isnā€™t all the practical and when the dealer asked me 75,000 over MSRP it kind of killed that one. The Silverado looks really good, especially the predicted range but again doesnā€™t exist.

At the end of the day Ford is better off fixing the issues with their current product offering rather than playing smack talk with the industry leader.
 
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Mach1E

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If you can refute the three items I gave as the what Tesla is better at then please do so.

Tesla suffer from no power throttling, a sign that they have superior battery management. Why else would the MME have the 5 second limit?

Tesla has a better charging curve and a higher peak charging speed. Most likely again from more mature battery tech.

Tesla has better range.

These are items that are published and discussed facts, not my opinion or narrative.

The only opinions I offered is that the MME has superior styling and ride quality.
Yup, he was right, you donā€™t get it.

Itā€™s better at some things and worse at others, but you start with the narrative that itā€™s ā€œsuperiorā€ then cherry pick the criteria and just call it ā€œfact.ā€

Yes, it accelerates faster and charges faster.

Real world testing shows is DOES NOT have better range.

It also rides worse, handles worse, brakes worse. Worse interior, worse build quality, and worse reliability. Plus itā€™s ugly.

That said, can anyone just conclude one car is ā€œsuperior?ā€ Absolutely NOT!

Itā€™s just your opinion. And calling your opinion ā€œfactā€ just shows how you donā€™t get it.
 

Zer0t

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Yup, he was right, you donā€™t get it.

Itā€™s better at some things and worse at others, but you start with the narrative that itā€™s ā€œsuperiorā€ then cherry pick the criteria and just call it ā€œfact.ā€

Yes, it accelerates faster and charges faster.

Real world testing shows is DOES NOT have better range.

It also rides worse, handles worse, brakes worse. Worse interior, worse build quality, and worse reliability. Plus itā€™s ugly.

That said, can anyone just conclude one car is ā€œsuperior?ā€ Absolutely NOT!

Itā€™s just your opinion. And calling your opinion ā€œfactā€ just shows how you donā€™t get it.
iā€™m sorry you didnā€™t get it. The issues with the ford are all related to battery management. Thus the Tesla is a better BEV. The MME may be a better car but not a better BEV.

Iā€™m not expecting any less as this is an MME forum. Itā€™s the same on the Tesla forums. Any challenger is completely picked apart as not viable.

All of your criticisms of the Tesla are opinions. Some I agree with and some I donā€™t. The ride is harsh but the handling on the performance versions is quite stable and capable. Styling is very opinion based. I happen to like the styling in the MME better, but thatā€™s my opinion. I also think Teslaā€™s infotainment is superior but thatā€™s just an opinion as well.
 

Mach1E

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iā€™m sorry you didnā€™t get it. The issues with the ford are all related to battery management. Thus the Tesla is a better BEV. The MME may be a better car but not a better BEV.

Iā€™m not expecting any less as this is an MME forum. Itā€™s the same on the Tesla forums. Any challenger is completely picked apart as not viable.

All of your criticisms of the Tesla are opinions. Some I agree with and some I donā€™t. The ride is harsh but the handling on the performance versions is quite stable and capable. Styling is very opinion based. I happen to like the styling in the MME better, but thatā€™s my opinion. I also think Teslaā€™s infotainment is superior but thatā€™s just an opinion as well.
Again, you are MAKING UP the criteria to determine ā€œwhich is superior.ā€

Thatā€™s where the ā€œopinionā€ comes in.


Each person decides for themselves which car is superior based on what they buy. Each person has their own OPINION on which criteria matters more.

Some people (like myself), will never use a DC charger. So that ā€œsuperiorā€ criteria is meaningless.

Many people never go full throttle for more than 5 seconds. Also could be meaningless TO THEM!

Quit trying to turn your opinions into facts. You are taking objective criteria (facts) and making them subjective (opinion) when you state that these couple things make one vehicle ā€œsuperiorā€ when there are just as many facts that make it inferior.

And the handling and braking and range are facts, but theyā€™re also facts that wonā€™t matter to everyone.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Ford's New Ad Pokes Fun at Elon Musk's Loud Mouth and Thin Skin 76EA0251-A9A7-4B40-B380-710FA7BDB9D7
 

Zer0t

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Again, you are MAKING UP the criteria to determine ā€œwhich is superior.ā€

Thatā€™s where the ā€œopinionā€ comes in.


Each person decides for themselves which car is superior based on what they buy. Each person has their own OPINION on which criteria matters more.

Some people (like myself), will never use a DC charger. So that ā€œsuperiorā€ criteria is meaningless.

Many people never go full throttle for more than 5 seconds. Also could be meaningless TO THEM!

Quit trying to turn your opinions into facts. You are taking objective criteria (facts) and making them subjective (opinion) when you state that these couple things make one vehicle ā€œsuperiorā€ when there are just as many facts that make it inferior.
You may not care about these issues but they are facts.

Does the MME GT cars have power limitations that result in power being cut after a short period of time (5 seconds)? Yes or No.

Does the MME have a lower peak charging rate and an over all slower curve? Yes or No.

Are these items related to thermal battery management? Yes or No.

Ok, call this an opinion but I think superior battery tech is what derives which car is a better BEV.

You're accepting these shortcomings because you like the car better. So do I and thatā€™s why I bought one too.
 

TonyaE

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I have no narrative. Just facts, while I enjoy the mustang the Tesla is still superior. It suffers from no limitations on power delivery, increased range and better charging.

the mustang is more stylish and has better interior and ride quality than the Y (direct competition).

Tesla sold 310,000 EVs in the 1st quarter and ford 430,000 cars in the first quarter of which a fraction were EVs (6734 Mach-E). Thus, Ford is just getting in the EV game and Tesla is the EV game right now.

im not a Tesla fanboy or Iā€™d have bought another. I like my Taycan better than the Model S I traded in for it. However, the difference between the S and Taycan is muc less. The Taycan does a few things better than the Sā€”like the charging speed.

Iā€™m just stating facts. Tesla is the benchmark that everyone is trying to unseat. The F150 is a great achievement and much important than the MME for Fordā€™s electric future. However, they, and others, are still playing catch up.
I agree with you %100. Tesla is EV king right now. Thatā€™s just facts. Thatā€™s their main focus. Theyā€™ve been doing it longer. My hope is that many carmakers will make desirable EV products. I think we all appreciate the different options becoming available. We all know some Teslas have build quality issues. We all know Ford has software and production issues. I donā€™t know what the future holds. I hope Ford can get it right, because I like Ford. Personally, I will never buy a Tesla due to their Leader. I donā€™t want him to have one dime of my money. Thatā€™s my choice. Some donā€™t care, thatā€™s their choice. Now, if Jim started jumping on social media, attacking the little guy. Guess what, I would not buy another Ford vehicle.
 

TonyaE

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Wow, this thread has made a sharp right. I chose the MME because it looks great, made by Ford ( service dept. close by) and itā€™s electricā€¦ thatā€™s it. Really donā€™t care about 5 secs of power, charging times, tech.šŸ¤·šŸ¾ā€ā™€ļø As long as it is reliable, comfortable to drive, and I can listen to my tunes.( I donā€™t need Netflix and games in my car)šŸ˜‚ā€¦ Iā€™m happy. Teslas may be ā€œ superiorā€ in someoneā€™s opinionā€¦okkkkk. Thatā€™s fine, you do you. In my opinion ( the only one that matters since itā€™s my money) MME is ā€œsuperiorā€ for ME.
Now, in my opinion, Musk is an ass and a bully. I hate bullies. If Ford pokes the bully in the eye, Iā€™m ok with it. Call me petty, donā€™t really care. šŸ˜Š
 

Mark IV

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All I saw in the video were F150s and Broncos. Thank goodness there aren't any Tesla advertisements going after MME software rollout or the lack of Ford's earth orbit capability. I love my MME but I'm still waiting for reliable OTAs.
"Lack of earth orbit capability"....you do know who built the Apollo mission control consoles, don't you?

I have a friend in Scotland who is from South Africa and went to school with Elon. I asked him what Elon was like back then. Answer: "The same asshole he is now, but without the money"
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