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GM and EVgo announce network expansion

macchiaz-o

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silverelan

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Based on the article from Electrek, It sounds like these chargers are going to be based on urban areas to facilitate ownership for people who don't have home charging. That's great and all but the biggest barrier for even people who have home charging is how to charge when they visit somewhere new and charging on the way there.
 

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Based on the article from Electrek, It sounds like these chargers are going to be based on urban areas to facilitate ownership for people who don't have home charging.
If somebody had to pay EVGo rates for every charge, it would be far cheaper to just pay for gas.
 

silverelan

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If somebody had to pay EVGo rates for every charge, it would be far cheaper to just pay for gas.
It's like @dbsb3233 said, they are getting ahead of the adoption curve. This is a good thing and helps remove a barrier to wider adoption. The piece of the puzzle that I don't see yet is DC fast charging at remote location destinations and the infrastructure to get there. There also needs to be a bunch of infill on routes between major cities.

Check out the sparse infrastructure between Detroit and Chicago.

Screenshot_20200731-092941.png
 

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It's like @dbsb3233 said, they are getting ahead of the adoption curve. This is a good thing and helps remove a barrier to wider adoption. The piece of the puzzle that I don't see yet is DC fast charging at remote location destinations and the infrastructure to get there. There also needs to be a bunch of infill on routes between major cities.

Check out the sparse infrastructure between Detroit and Chicago.
Actually the infrastructure between Detroit and Chicago isn't that bad. I can make that trip in my Bolt (there is a DCFC in Kalamazoo and if I want more I can drop down to I-80 in Ohio and use EA's chargers there).

Its worse trying to go to Michigan's UP as there is no public DCFC's up there at all. Once you're North of the new DCFC in Gaylord (which looks like its now operation) you are on your own.
 

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Based on the article from Electrek, It sounds like these chargers are going to be based on urban areas to facilitate ownership for people who don't have home charging. That's great and all but the biggest barrier for even people who have home charging is how to charge when they visit somewhere new and charging on the way there.
Definitely some good and bad in this. At first I was excited when I read the headline, as I thought "competition for EA!" and better coverage on road trips. But reading deeper it looks like only metro area locations, not highway locations for road trips. Bummer. Won't help me any then.

But OTOH, apartment parking lot chargers will be needed to expand viable BEV adoption for apartment residents who don't have a private home to charge at overnight. So it's still potentially important.

However I still think they're going about this wrong. 100-350 kW chargers are for charging STOPS (20-45 minutes), not 8+ hour charging STAYS (overnight/work/school). Apartment charging needs a STAY, not a STOP. When people get home to their apartment, they're not gonna want to have to remember to run out of the apartment 45 minutes later to unplug and move their car. (A 100-350 kW charger will likely penalize them if they don't.) Those charging STAY stations ought to be L2 (they're a lot cheaper too, meaning more can be built for the same money).

They do have it right when they talk of "rideshare and delivery drivers" though. Those people need both overnight L2 plus L3 charging STOPS (45 minute fill-ups) during the day. But not apartment residents, office workers, etc. They need L2 charging STAYS.
 

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These are good baby steps. This doesn't solve what I think is the biggest (whether it's warranted or not) barrier to EV adoption - which is the "go anywhere" nature of cars is held back when a potential customer looks at all the places they can't go with an EV. They may not go to the UP every day, maybe not even every year, but when they think "well if I buy this Edge I can go there" they will, rather than realize that they would be fine 99% of the time with home charging.
 

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These are good baby steps. This doesn't solve what I think is the biggest (whether it's warranted or not) barrier to EV adoption - which is the "go anywhere" nature of cars is held back when a potential customer looks at all the places they can't go with an EV. They may not go to the UP every day, maybe not even every year, but when they think "well if I buy this Edge I can go there" they will, rather than realize that they would be fine 99% of the time with home charging.
Agreed. That and the long time it takes to public charge. Even supposed "fast" charging is still very slow compared to what everyone is used to with gas. That's often countered with "well, just stop to eat for an hour", and that will often work for one refuel. But the longer the trip, the less that works as a solution. And even when you do overlap with a meal, some people won't like being stuck with whatever restaurant is nextdoor.

Between the lack of charger coverage outside cities, the slow charging, the need to plan out a stringent route like you're filing a flight plan with the FAA, the lack of overnight hotel chargers, and retail charger pricing that's often significantly more than gasoline, convincing mainstream consumers to buy BEVs for use on road trips has a long way to go. For around-home use (if you have a house+garage to charge in), they're great. Especially if you also have an ICE/PHEV car for road trips. That will be the meat of the mainstream customer base for some time, IMO.
 

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I'd love to see some faster cheaper EvGo stations at a store near me. I've only used an EvGo once because there is always a cheaper station near enough to be worth going to.
Where are the Faster Fastor Stations?
 

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Definitely some good and bad in this. At first I was excited when I read the headline, as I thought "competition for EA!" and better coverage on road trips. But reading deeper it looks like only metro area locations, not highway locations for road trips. Bummer. Won't help me any then.

But OTOH, apartment parking lot chargers will be needed to expand viable BEV adoption for apartment residents who don't have a private home to charge at overnight. So it's still potentially important.

However I still think they're going about this wrong. 100-350 kW chargers are for charging STOPS (20-45 minutes), not 8+ hour charging STAYS (overnight/work/school). Apartment charging needs a STAY, not a STOP. When people get home to their apartment, they're not gonna want to have to remember to run out of the apartment 45 minutes later to unplug and move their car. (A 100-350 kW charger will likely penalize them if they don't.) Those charging STAY stations ought to be L2 (they're a lot cheaper too, meaning more can be built for the same money).

They do have it right when they talk of "rideshare and delivery drivers" though. Those people need both overnight L2 plus L3 charging STOPS (45 minute fill-ups) during the day. But not apartment residents, office workers, etc. They need L2 charging STAYS.
DCFC actually makes sense for some apartment/condo buildings. Pull in, plug in, go into home. Come back, move car. Next person can charge. At certain levels of usage it makes more sense than 1 charger 1 car all night.
 

ajmartineau

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DCFC actually makes sense for some apartment/condo buildings
Yes...
except for the cost. Even the 25kW DCFC is really expensive. I'd rather see ten 32amp chargers in a condo parking lot. It would be great to see the 25kW DCFC prices come down to a couple of grand then they would be a great fit for a fancy sit-down restaurant or a large mall. ..somewhere you will spend a couple of hours.
 

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Definitely some good and bad in this. At first I was excited when I read the headline, as I thought "competition for EA!" and better coverage on road trips. But reading deeper it looks like only metro area locations, not highway locations for road trips. Bummer. Won't help me any then.

But OTOH, apartment parking lot chargers will be needed to expand viable BEV adoption for apartment residents who don't have a private home to charge at overnight. So it's still potentially important.

However I still think they're going about this wrong. 100-350 kW chargers are for charging STOPS (20-45 minutes), not 8+ hour charging STAYS (overnight/work/school). Apartment charging needs a STAY, not a STOP. When people get home to their apartment, they're not gonna want to have to remember to run out of the apartment 45 minutes later to unplug and move their car. (A 100-350 kW charger will likely penalize them if they don't.) Those charging STAY stations ought to be L2 (they're a lot cheaper too, meaning more can be built for the same money).

They do have it right when they talk of "rideshare and delivery drivers" though. Those people need both overnight L2 plus L3 charging STOPS (45 minute fill-ups) during the day. But not apartment residents, office workers, etc. They need L2 charging STAYS.
Besides the fact that too much use of L3 STOP chargers just kill the battery on the long term
 

ClaudeMach-E

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DCFC actually makes sense for some apartment/condo buildings. Pull in, plug in, go into home. Come back, move car. Next person can charge. At certain levels of usage it makes more sense than 1 charger 1 car all night.
Except if they modify building code so wiring for EV chargers is included rigth from the day they make the building. So if the apartment owner have an EV he can only buy his own charger and plug it in, in older building that could be hard to achive and especially in condo where you have to deal with the other owners.
 

dbsb3233

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DCFC actually makes sense for some apartment/condo buildings. Pull in, plug in, go into home. Come back, move car. Next person can charge. At certain levels of usage it makes more sense than 1 charger 1 car all night.
But having to play musical chairs like that night after night is gonna get really old, really fast. If that charger's busy when you get home, are you really gonna sit around checking your phone every 10 minutes waiting for it to open so you can run out and move your car to it before anybody else does? Only to find someone else still beat you to so now you're on charger watch for another hour? You'd be a slave to your car. Most people won't put up with that.

Instead of one L3 charger, they should install 4 L2 chargers. Park it, plug it is, and forget it for the night. People will do that. Most won't babysit it though.
 



 








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