GM and EVgo announce network expansion

[dbsb3233]

If L2/L3 chargers are ubiquitous, it's not really an issue is it? Especially if an 80% charge will last 200mi or many weeks if the car isn't used.

It might not be any more inconvenient than having the half or quarter tank of gas in the car most of us live with on a daily basis. Many of us have to swing by the grocery store gas station to refuel anyways where there's also a DCFC so it potentially wouldn't be any different with the MME.

The important attributes that make a BEV advantageous (and tolerable) in regards to fueling are:

1. "Park it and forget it" charging, for hours (usually overnight at home, or at work or school).
2. Cheap charging at residential rates (roughly 1/3rd of gas) to help offset the $10k+ higher purchase price.
3. Dedicated, secure, guaranteed charging when you need it.

That's what people get when they have a house and garage to charge in overnight. Or rarely at work, school, or some (but not nearly enough) apartments that offer it.

But nearly every other charger situation is more problematic by losing one or more of those positive attributes and becoming a detriment. A public L2 street charger is usually more expensive than home, and it's a crap-shoot whether you can get it when you need it overnight (no one will like playing musical chairs looking for an open charger). An L3 charger is usually FAR more expensive than that, and has to be babysat (won't allow you to park it and forget it). That 30-minute grocery shop at Walmart with an EA in the parking lot can cost 25 bucks, for only 150 miles. That's twice as much as gas. That may work in an rare emergency, or a road trip, but few are gonna put up with that high cost all the time. They'll just buy ICE or PHEV if that's the best they can do.

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[ChasingCoral]

And lots of stores offer free L2 charging while you shop -- especially health food stores.

 

[macchiaz-o]

And lots of stores offer free L2 charging while you shop -- especially health food stores.

Uhhhh. NOT in these parts! According to PlugShare, there are about twenty public chargers in the entire city I live in, including fee-based, and it's quite a large city. Most of those are semi-public (e.g. at apartments, hotels, or at car dealerships in autoplexes away from places I want to be).

 

[dbsb3233]

And lots of stores offer free L2 charging while you shop -- especially health food stores.

So, adding what, 7-10 miles for a 20-minute shop stop? Some may take the freebie just because it's free, but that's not gonna move the needle more than a hair.

ABC (Always Be Charging) isn't gonna cut it with most mainstream drivers.

 

[dbsb3233]

That's low for the Mach-e. Let's recalculate that for an MME ER AWD...

63 kWh is slightly over the 61.6 that is 70% of the 10-80% charge in 45 minutes Ford keeps advertising (88 kWh usable). They've confirmed that over and over and over, so it's pointless to assume anything better.

That vehicle uses the top EA price ($0.99 per minute in most states). Subtract 20% for Pass+ membership and that's $0.79/min. 45 minutes x $0.79 = $35.

EDITED: EA Pass+ discount is actually almost 30% rather than the 20% they described. Price in most states is $0.70 x 45 minutes = $31.50.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So, adding what, 7-10 miles for a 20-minute shop stop? Some may take the freebie just because it's free, but that's not gonna move the needle more than a hair.

ABC (Always Be Charging) isn't gonna cut it with most mainstream drivers.

Complementary ABC charging is what I consider "offset" charging. They provide enough charge to offset your drive to the establishment. Considering it only takes seconds it's easy to do. It also means you can pre-condition the car on hot or cold days without penalty.

It's amazing how fast that mindset kicks in once you have a BEV. Mainstream drivers will get it in a minute.

 

[timbop]

That vehicle uses the top EA price ($0.99 per minute in most states). Subtract 20% for Pass+ membership and that's $0.79/min. 45 minutes x $0.71 = $35.

Actually, the rates are a little better than that around you. According to EA's website (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/pricing), the membership rate in colorado, nebraska, new mexico, kansas, oklahoma, texas, idaho, and arizona is $.60/min. California, Nevada and Utah are $.70/min. At $.60/min, you're talking $.13/mile; at $2.50/gal and 25 mpg an ICE would be $.10/mile. If you stop charging at the 60% mark you can probably get yourself $.11/mile, although you'll need an extra stop or two.

 

[dbsb3233]

Actually, the rates are a little better than that around you. According to EA's website (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/pricing), the membership rate in colorado, nebraska, new mexico, kansas, oklahoma, texas, idaho, and arizona is $.60/min. California, Nevada and Utah are $.70/min. At $.60/min, you're talking $.13/mile; at $2.50/gal and 25 mpg an ICE would be $.10/mile. If you stop charging at the 60% mark you can probably get yourself $.11/mile, although you'll need an extra stop or two.

Thanks. I didn't scroll that far down the page. I read their "about 20 percent" off and used that. When in fact the top rate it almost 30% off (29.29%). Surprised they would undercut touting their own discount like that. Any good marketing person would jump on that. Odd.

I used the $0.99 base rate in that example because it's most common and he's in one of those states (OR), but yes, CO is one of the states with the lower $0.89 base rate. So the $35 in that example should really be $31.50. (Or $27 in one of the dime-less states).

As for the per-mile costs, I think those are a bit low. But it depends on what you use as a miles/kWh rate. ABRP is saying 2.64 on the MME AWD ER. For a 10-80% 45 minute charge, that's an avg of 82 kW. Even the lower $0.60 EA rate comes out to $0.60 * 60 / 82 = $0.44 per Kwh / 2.64 miles/kWh = $0.166/mile. Stopping at 60% might raise that avg kW to 100 or so (about a 20% increase) for maybe $0.13/mile.

But that's all at the 65 MPH baseline in ABRP. At 75-80 MPH, probably have to raise it all another 10-20%. (But we're also hoping Ford improves that 45 minute time a little, so who knows.)

 

[dbsb3233]

Complementary ABC charging is what I consider "offset" charging. They provide enough charge to offset your drive to the establishment. Considering it only takes seconds it's easy to do. It also means you can pre-condition the car on hot or cold days without penalty.

It's amazing how fast that mindset kicks in once you have a BEV. Mainstream drivers will get it in a minute.

Because it's free, it'll get used. Any time you give away anything for free, there will be takers. But I think it would be a mistake to expect a flood of freebie chargers just giving it away all over. Again, barely gonna move the needle.

People are gonna need (mostly) overnight charging for serious BEV market penetration to really work. ABC ain't gonna cut it for most IMO. ABC = PITA.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Because it's free, it'll get used. Any time you give away anything for free, there will be takers. But I think it would be a mistake to expect a flood of freebie chargers just giving it away all over. Again, barely gonna move the needle.

People are gonna need (mostly) overnight charging for serious BEV market penetration to really work. ABC ain't gonna cut it for most IMO. ABC = PITA.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. As an almost 3-year BEV driver, I can tell you that opportunistic charging is a breeze, not a PITA. Would I want that to be my only charging? No way. You might want to hold off on such strong judgement until you've actually owned a BEV for a while.

 

[dbsb3233]

Don't knock it until you've tried it. As an almost 3-year BEV driver, I can tell you that opportunistic charging is a breeze, not a PITA. Would I want that to be my only charging? No way. You might want to hold off on such strong judgement until you've actually owned a BEV for a while.

Remember that BEVs make up only 1% of vehicles in use in the US. And CCS ones a small fraction that. It's pretty easy pickens of the freebie chargers for those mostly enthusiast owners now. But that's gonna change rather dramatically this decade. And I really don't think most stores and restaurants are gonna rush out to install dozens of freebie chargers. A few kick-starters by places like health food stores to show their green stripes was one thing, but giving it away to the masses in high volume is quite another. I think most will be pay stations. And when not getting a freebie anymore, consumer behaviors change a lot.

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