Mach1E

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You're totally okay being that guy that regurgitates falsehoods that are demonstrably wrong?

It's not just you getting corrected...things you say as though they were factual are seen by others and perpetuated and that much harder to correct.

This is your position while being mad at Ford for not being transparent with their information? Bizarre. Truly.
No, heā€™s point out that we are all trying to figure this crap out togetherā€¦ā€¦.. wading through the fog and lack of information out there.

And since Ford keeps putting out inaccurate and inconsistent informationā€¦ā€¦. We donā€™t care if WE get something wrong.

As long as we figure out the truth in the end, couldnā€™t care less if we are proven wrong.

I, like he, donā€™t feel ā€œsillyā€ when the actual truth comes out. I want to know the truth. Itā€™s not about being proven right or wrong on the internet.

What was kinda silly though was that you posted evidence I had already seen and acted like you uncovered the bloody weapon in a murder mystery.

Nope, I had read the disclaimer on the euro media site. Ford still hasnā€™t disclosed what I think they should.

One thing I would LOVE to be wrong about is the 5 second thing. I wouldnā€™t feel silly at all if you actually get a 5 second boost from a roll.
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Scooby24

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Semantics.

But I see it as the same issue:

Ford either messing up the details or not giving us the details and us being angry that we arenā€™t getting the performance we desire.

Just found it incredibly ironic that youā€™re taking a very strong stance criticizing Ford on one issue and a very strong stance defending Ford on the other issue.

They advertised brakes a certain way and you expected and wanted them (even though what they advertised is impossible, 19ā€ brakes. And the other details were advertised by Brembo, not Ford).

And thus you had certain expectations, and made buying decisions based on it.

Well, for me, they advertised 480hp and beating the Model Y. That gave me expectations and I made buying decisions based on it.

They didnā€™t advertise 480hp temporarily as a boost (at least not in the US). And in Europe that disclaimer was buried so deep that thousands of us looking daily at the internet for updates on details on the car (and the media for that matter) couldnā€™t figure out that detail until 3 months after they posted it.

It was hidden so well that all the news stories talking about the 5 second limitations site THIS WEBSITE as the source!!

And even with it somewhat known at this point, we still donā€™t know how much power it makes without the boost and how long the boost lasts from a roll.

Ford advertised ā€œBrembo brakesā€ for the GT. You were expecting the 480hp (best) version of that and used outside sources of information to logically make that assumption. And are mad it didnā€™t live up to YOUR expectations.

Yup, you sound an awful lot like me.
Technical specifications are not semantics. Ford advertised the same size brakes for the GT and GTPE. A physically different specification on final product from advertised is a different issue from a technically correct specification of listing peak power and torque that doesn't last as long as you expected.

One is a technically correct specification that isn't fully expanded upon. The other is an incorrect specification. These are very different things.

It may sound similar in your head, but it's very different from a legal and conceptual perspective.
 

Mach1E

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Technical specifications are not semantics. Ford advertised the same size brakes for the GT and GTPE. A physically different specification on final product from advertised is a different issue from a technically correct specification of listing peak power and torque that doesn't last as long as you expected.

One is a technically correct specification that isn't fully expanded upon. The other is an incorrect specification. These are very different things.

It may sound similar in your head, but it's very different from a legal and conceptual perspective.
We could argue about the difference between ā€œsimilarā€ and ā€œthe same.ā€

Then we could argue the definition of ā€œsemantics.ā€

But that would be silly.
 

Scooby24

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No, heā€™s point out that we are all trying to figure this crap out togetherā€¦ā€¦.. wading through the fog and lack of information out there.

And since Ford keeps putting out inaccurate and inconsistent informationā€¦ā€¦. We donā€™t care if WE get something wrong.

As long as we figure out the truth in the end, couldnā€™t care less if we are proven wrong.

I, like he, donā€™t feel ā€œsillyā€ when the actual truth comes out. I want to know the truth. Itā€™s not about being proven right or wrong on the internet.

What was kinda silly though was that you posted evidence I had already seen and acted like you uncovered the bloody weapon in a murder mystery.

Nope, I had read the disclaimer on the euro media site. Ford still hasnā€™t disclosed what I think they should.
In my brake thread that's exactly what I was asking for and attempting to do but was being given media material and told they WILL be the same size when I was attempting to validate that it was in fact wrong.

The claims being made in that case discourage the actual fact finding.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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You're totally okay being that guy that regurgitates falsehoods that are demonstrably wrong?

It's not just you getting corrected...things you say as though they were factual are seen by others and perpetuated and that much harder to correct.

This is your position while being mad at Ford for not being transparent with their information? Bizarre. Truly.
Dude. Really?
Ford Mustang Mach-E Great Mach-E GT PE Drag Strip Testing - 12 Runs! B95816CD-19DA-47FE-8BFF-AC179B985731
 


Pushrods&Capacitors

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In my brake thread that's exactly what I was asking for and attempting to do but was being given media material and told they WILL be the same size when I was attempting to validate that it was in fact wrong.

The claims being made in that case discourage the actual fact finding.
Hereā€™s a nickelā€™s worth of free advise:

Stop castigating fellow forum members for providing inaccurate specs/info. when that info is coming from FORD.

Nobody here is intentionally lying and just shrugging it off.

Enjoy your tiny Brembos and sometimes 480HP, sometimes not 480HP.
?

Weā€™re all pals.
 

pt19713

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Ya'll know of ANY other vehicle out there that will offer a package that will shave 1 second off your ET and 1 second off your 0-60 for about 4 grand?

Model Y LR vs Performance is a 7 grand premium.

LR = 0-60 4.1 seconds 1/4 = [email protected]
Performance = 0-60 3.6 seconds 1/4 = 12.1@113

Note the trap speeds.
The numbers from Motor Trend are an anomaly. The LR Y they used produced 0-60 and quarter mile times no other stock Y has been able to achieve. Other stock Ys are posting 4.6 and 12.8 @ 106 mph. My Y with the acceleration boost is 3.9 and 12.2 @ 113 mph. There's no way a stock Y is doing 12.4 @ 114.8 mph. I've talked to the owner of the vehicle that Motor Trend borrowed and he's confirmed he has the 990 motor and not the 980 motor. No one has an explanation as to why his numbers are quicker than they should be.
 

0t60-3.5

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Itā€™s pretty clear from the information that we do have that ford doesnā€™t really think of this car as a Mustang.

Iā€™ll just keep the Smurfmobile until they decide to get serious about an EV Mustang.
Watching the videos of the presentations by Ford in San Francisco at the GT launch, they were dismally boring. They talked about getting groceries, for gosh sakes.

HINT: Get some real men up there who have GT500s, Shelby's, etc. and have them speak of the performance. Not the crap "you're one with the car" stuff when we're talking Mustang GT and GT PE. American muscle is all that should have been on display. Pathetic and possibly a view into their mindset.

Sadly, they are NOT in American muscle, Mustang mode in the GT / GT PE presentation.

So we do have to ask, as you did:

Does Ford really think of this car as a Mustang? All signs point to No.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Great Mach-E GT PE Drag Strip Testing - 12 Runs! 1634735579040
 
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Mach1E

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Hereā€™s a nickelā€™s worth of free advise:

Stop castigating fellow forum members for providing inaccurate specs/info. when that info is coming from FORD.

Nobody here is intentionally lying and just shrugging it off.

Enjoy your tiny Brembos and sometimes 480HP, sometimes not 480HP.
?

Weā€™re all pals.
Ding ding ding!

Same team, same team!

I just found it ironic to use Ford information to defend Ford on this thread and Ford information as evidence against Ford on another.

Havenā€™t we learned not to trust the specs Ford has provided?
 

harrysiii

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Hereā€™s a nickelā€™s worth of free advise:

Stop castigating fellow forum members for providing inaccurate specs/info. when that info is coming from FORD.

Nobody here is intentionally lying and just shrugging it off.

Enjoy your tiny Brembos and sometimes 480HP, sometimes not 480HP.
?

Weā€™re all pals.
The worst part was all the misinformation and confusion around the brakes. Early on, Ford did state the GTs would have "Front Brembo brakes and red painted calipers." Well, they weren't lying because they are all painted red, and ONLY the fronts are Brembos (the rear are Continental) and the latest spec sheets state this as well.
 

harrysiii

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Ding ding ding!

Same team, same team!

I just found it ironic to use Ford information to defend Ford on this thread and Ford information as evidence against Ford on another.

Havenā€™t we learned not to trust the specs Ford has provided?
Definitely can't trust it since it was clearly marketing's attempt to rush something out the door. Even the 19" wheel claim...I'm sure someone in marketing heard the total brake diameter takes up "about 19"" and they went with it stating "19" brakes!" Things like this get repeated around a couple of times and ...boom... it's in the marketing material.
 

Frankie

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It appears they've been disclosed with the media drive as well as implementing a power meter. They are not the only ones who haven't fully disclosed their caveats as I noted above. The information is out there now to all except the earliest adopters.



We evolved to be capable of quite a bit more complex thought than binary rationalization. You can avoid bitching and moaning, understanding it's not going to bring about change, while at the same time providing constructive criticisms and feedback.

eg: Ford scheduling calls with owners and their engineers, which is something that can and does happen.
I don't see you providing constructive criticisms and feedback I see you making excuses after excuse for Ford's deceptive advertising and mediocre engineering.

Except about the brakes, which you're bitching and moaning about. When you read they had 19" brakes you knew it was wrong but chose to believe that, even though it was wrong, it was PARTIALLY right. Turns out you were wrong.
 

Scooby24

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I don't see you providing constructive criticisms and feedback I see you making excuses after excuse for Ford's deceptive advertising and mediocre engineering.

Except about the brakes, which you're bitching and moaning about. When you read they had 19" brakes you knew it was wrong but chose to believe that, even though it was wrong, it was PARTIALLY right. Turns out you were wrong.
Who would you like me to provide constructive criticism to here regarding the power boost duration?

On the brakes you should really consider reading the thread because none of what you said occurred in that thread. The thread had a specific intent, which was to confirm or deny that the GT/PE brakes were different sizes. My request was outlined quite clearly.

I didn't state the brakes were 19". The model comparison specifications stated no size difference between the GT/GTPE. Additionally, confirming that specification Brembo's marketing material stated the rotors were 385mm for both models. All available information indicated GT and GTPE brakes were the same size.

They were not partially right in that regard, in any way. The GT brakes are not the same size as the GTPE. As soon as I got the information I was after there was nothing else to add to the thread....hence it's dead.

What I was after was accomplished. From here, it needs to be brought to Ford which I will do after purchase.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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It's not that fishy, just a matter of understanding physics.

The longer time you have to accelerate, the faster you can get.

The shorter time you have to accelerate, the less time you have to build speed.

If you get a fast start, AKA a boost, you accelerate faster but for a shorter period of time before you cross the line where your speed is measured.

This is demonstrated back to back when you get faster 60' times, you generally have slower trap speeds.

The reality is that the GT/PE could and is likely making more power even after the boost than the MME but because the MME has more time to accelerate (slower ET) it can build up more speed in the same distance.

You can't look at trap speeds alone as a measurement.

This is the problem with bench racing.

Here's a decent explanation of it:
http://www.pdq-v.com/files/trapspeedversusETExplained.pdf
Haha, just saw this. As someone who has drag raced my fair share Iā€™ll say that the above info. is definitely true and demonstrable.

With one big caveat: There is an equilibrium point where your ET is fully optimized due to launch traction and your trap speed is optimized based on gearing (not EV applicable really), aerodynamics, weight, etc.

In no world is a 480HP, 5000lb GT/PE 1/4 trap speed of 101-104mph optimized, regardless of launch optimization/low ET.
This is the reason I know a GT at 100% is capable of high 11s @ 110mph+ in the 1/4 mile. Because theyā€™ve already gone 12.2s@105 now with acceleration after 75-80 occurring at a comparatively glacial pace.

Off the top of my head:

ā€˜21 Jeep Wrangler 392: 4.0 0-60 12.9@104mph 470hp 5250lbs on 35ā€ A/T tires

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37806544/2021-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-tested/

ā€˜14 SS Sedan 4.5 0-60 12.9@111mph 415hp 3930lbs

ā€˜20 Tesla YP 3.7 0-60 11.9@114mph 450-460? 4400lbs

ā€˜20 Tesla 3P 3.3 0-60 11.7@116mph Same? 4000lbs

ā€˜22 Porsche Taycan Base (non S) 4.7 0-60 12.9@115? 421hp (469 in LC mode for a few seconds). 4800lbs

ā€˜21 MME GT/PE 0-60 3.5-3.8 12.2-12.6@101-105mph 480HP 5000ish lbs.

So, out of my oddball collection the GT is the 2nd quickest to 60, weighs the 2nd most, is roughly mid pack in the 1/4 ET but sports a trap speed equal to or lower than a heavier Jeep on 35ā€ mud tires shaped like an actual bi-level brick.

The GT Is not a yardstick by which to
Measure optimized ET vs Trap speed.
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