H.R. 3684: Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act

[All Hat No Cattle]

Well, the Infrastructure Investment is passed and should be signed this week.

Read all 1000+ pages here. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr3684/text

Skimming thru the PDF file I found this on page 993.

(2) $5,000,000,000, to remain available until expended for
amounts made available for each of fiscal years 2022 through
2026, shall be to carry out a National Electric Vehicle Formula
Program (referred to in this paragraph in this Act as the
‘‘Program’’) to provide funding to States to strategically deploy
electric vehicle charging infrastructure and to establish an
interconnected network to facilitate data collection, access, and
reliability: Provided, That funds made available under this
paragraph in this Act shall be used for: (1) the acquisition
and installation of electric vehicle charging infrastructure to
serve as a catalyst for the deployment of such infrastructure
and to connect it to a network to facilitate data collection,
access, and reliability; (2) proper operation and maintenance
of electric vehicle charging infrastructure; and (3) data sharing

I'm reading that as saying $5 Billion for charging stations every year for 5 years. Am I reading that correctly?

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[Badger_Prof]

Well, the Infrastructure Investment is passed and should be signed this week.

Read all 1000+ pages here. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr3684/text

Skimming thru the PDF file I found this on page 993.



I'm reading that as saying $5 Billion for charging stations every year for 5 years. Am I reading that correctly?

I believe the total is $5B--not per year but could be wrong.

 

[ARK]

Well, the Infrastructure Investment is passed and should be signed this week.

Read all 1000+ pages here. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/hr3684/text

Skimming thru the PDF file I found this on page 993.



I'm reading that as saying $5 Billion for charging stations every year for 5 years. Am I reading that correctly?

I read that to mean they have $5,000,000,000 to spend between fiscal years 2022 and 2026 in a use it or lose it type of program.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

I read that to mean they have $5,000,000 to spend between fiscal years 2022 and 2026 in a use it or lose it type of program.

Probably correct, $25 Billion seemed to be a lot for charging stations.

Anyone in that business (Charging Stations) know what an average station actually costs?

In other words, how many can we look forward to?

 

[SeattleMachE]

Probably correct, $25 Billion seemed to be a lot for charging stations.

Anyone in that business (Charging Stations) know what an average station actually costs?

In other words, how many can we look forward to?

I’ve read that Electrify America has had an average cost of approx 200k per stall, to give an idea

 

[Bryan_GTPE]

It is 5 billion total, can be used in those fiscal years until exhausted, plus another 2.5 billion towards other EV investments, haven’t found that language yet. Should help greatly with charging capacity, especially if Tesla does open their network to all EVs in the US, if one is willing to deal with Tesla stans ?

 

[RickMachE]

They want a network of 500,000 charging stations by 2030.

Cost of a station is $100k.

 

[timbop]

They want a network of 500,000 charging stations by 2030.

Cost of a station is $100k.

at $100k that's only 50,000 stations. Unfortunately it doesn't specify output of the stations, so they'll probably put a bunch of crappy 50kw stations in and then wonder why they don't get enough usage....

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

at $100k that's only 50,000 stations. Unfortunately it doesn't specify output of the stations, so they'll probably put a bunch of crappy 50kw stations in and then wonder why they don't get enough usage....

No doubt they’ll be 50 kW EFACEC stations which won’t work with any CCS car designed after 1895.

To quote Greenlots on that problem, “The Mach-e cannot DC fast charge. This is a limitation of the car and is not our problem. Ford is aware of this.”

I should have saved the email and posted it here.

 

[RickMachE]

The goal isn't for the government to build all these stations, nor is it for them to fund 500,000 stations. This money is to jumpstart the industry. There are 1,169 Tesla Supercharger locations in the US today. EA has 600 locations as of end of April, took 3 years. They wanted 800 by year's end. Bet they don't get there. Anyone who thinks that EV chargers will be prevalent across the country without government subsidies is kidding themselves. Tesla will open their supercharger network because Musk wants a bite at the funding.

 

[timbop]

The goal isn't for the governmet to build all these stations, nor is it for them to fund 500,000 stations. This money is to jumpstart the industry. There are 1,169 Tesla Supercharger locations in the US today. EA has 600 locations as of end of April, took 3 years. They wanted 800 by year's end. Bet they don't get there. Anyone who thinks that EV chargers will be prevalent across the country without government subsidies is kidding themselves. Tesla will open their supercharger network because Musk wants a bite at the funding.

Clearly as the language states it is intended to be grants to charging companies, not government owned. No one said they would be "uncle sam's electrons", but because they are grants that can go to EVgo, Chargepoint and the rest then many of them can and will be 50kw or the oft-misconfigured "shared" 125kw variety. And yes, Musk is clearly positioning himself to get a slice of that gov'ment cheese - charging 3x the price to non-Tesla users just as his pilot station in Europe is doing. That money will also go to a ton of L2 charging, but who knows where.

I am very much in favor of uncle sam adding additional stimulus for charging stations, but the vague wording with no stipulations and greedy nature of humanity concerns me.

 

[Kevin P]

I would like to see many more L2 stations in parking garages at popular destinations. For instance, I go to college basketball games, and the parking garage is three levels and would likely hold 2000 cars or more. There are two Chargepoint L2s for the whole garage. I don't trust that they will be available, so I don't drive the EV. Not interested in going out of my way to add the 20kws or so that it would take to make the round trip comfortably.

 

[RickMachE]

I would like to see many more L2 stations in parking garages at popular destinations. For instance, I go to college basketball games, and the parking garage is three levels and would likely hold 2000 cars or more. There are two Chargepoint L2s for the whole garage. I don't trust that they will be available, so I don't drive the EV. Not interested in going out of my way to add the 20kws or so that it would take to make the round trip comfortably.

The more chargers they put in parking lots and garages, the better. However, for mass events, the more people need to go to special spaces, the longer the fill time takes.

 

[timbop]

The thing with L2 chargers is that they are not cost prohibitive like DCFC chargers are, and proprietors can add them reasonably cheaply as a benefit for their customers anyway. They also only make sense for locations where activities last several hours - L2 at a convenience store is a waste of resources. Apartment L2 are certainly needed for BEV adoption in urban areas, but government funding of exclusive chargers in expensive gated buildings doesn't feel like enough "bang for the buck" either.

 

[phil]

"Firms, in the pursuit of profits, are led, as if by an invisible hand, to do what is best for the world."

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