jdouglas0445

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I am curious if anyone believes the Mach-e would incorporate home back-up power with the Mach e? I ask because I came across the “dcbel” home car charger. Essentially it’s a dual car charger with “fast charging” capabilities. The other kicker is that it allows two way power flow, so if you lose power at your house your car battery acts as a backup. I personally like this feature and would be useful in case of an emergency. Also I haven’t started to build my solar system yet so this would be nice in the meantime.

https://dcbel.ossiaco.com/

I had realized I had posted in wrong forum, I couldn’t figure out how to repost and delete. Sorry!
 
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mark360

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Seems like a cool design, and I do like that idea. I do think there is quite a big loss though converting DC to AC. Typically 30% losses. What would be the max load that it could take as well? Probably couldn't turn everything on in your house. Seems like a nightmare getting that installed to electrical code.

That product doesn't really add much power to what a 60 amp Tesla wall connector does. The Tesla wall connector adds 45 miles per hour to my Model 3, or essentially 11kW/hr. The wall connector is straight AC power, which the onboard AC to DC charger in the car turns to DC power to charge the battery.

This is claiming it has an AC to DC converter, but that converter only adds an additional 15 miles per hour or 14.5kW/hr charge rate max.

For the Mach E, you would be looking at 6.75 hours on this charger from completely empty to full (0%-100%).
 

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This is cool. I’ve been looking into V2G (vehicle to grid) technology for a while now, as I’ve got a solar and battery system and actually trade energy to the National Grid. I asked Ford if their Wall Box would be future proofed to allow V2G capability... unfortunately they weren’t able to answer which means it’s a no. V2G exsists in Europe, however it’s only possible via CHADeMO connectors. However on quick glance of the link you shared it seems to be saying that it comes with a CCS or CHADeMO. My understanding was that being able to offer bi-directional via CCS was still a few years off, so I’d dig a little further into this company to find out. It may be that their marketing department are being smart with their wording in so much as you can get a wall box with a CCS adaptor to charge your car, but the bi-directional may only be possible with the CHADeMO. Either way, it looks promising. I’m keen to explore their website in more detail. Thanks!
 

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Any idea of price?
 

LYTMCQ

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I am curious if anyone believes the Mach-e would incorporate home back-up power with the Mach e?
Get that all the time with Tesla and answer is no due to issues of back feeding directly, car energy management, etc.

If you wanted to use the car's stored energy in an emergency, easiest way to do it is a generator running off car's rear wheels using a dyno type roller generator.

As EVs become more prevalent some entrepreneur will make a home generator drive via EV wheels.

All the Mach-E and other EV's mfgs need to do is have a "Generator Mode" that applies Parking brake and allows one wheel (or two if that is easier for the car to do) to have all the power.

Can it be built for less than cost of Tesla Powerwall or other battery backup?
 

jlauro

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If you wanted to use the car's stored energy in an emergency, easiest way to do it is a generator running off car's rear wheels using a dyno type roller generator.
Even if it's easiest (which is debatable that it's easier than plugging it in...), it would lose more efficiency.

Can it be built for less than cost of Tesla Powerwall or other battery backup?
A powerwall is only about a quarter the size of a long range EV. That said, you do need a gateway box to cut off power from leaving your house in the event of a power outage for safety reasons. It certainly would be nice to get a few days of extra runtime by plugging in your EV to power your house if you don't need the miles...
 

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This is cool. I’ve been looking into V2G (vehicle to grid) technology for a while now, as I’ve got a solar and battery system and actually trade energy to the National Grid. I asked Ford if their Wall Box would be future proofed to allow V2G capability... unfortunately they weren’t able to answer which means it’s a no. V2G exsists in Europe, however it’s only possible via CHADeMO connectors. However on quick glance of the link you shared it seems to be saying that it comes with a CCS or CHADeMO. My understanding was that being able to offer bi-directional via CCS was still a few years off, so I’d dig a little further into this company to find out. It may be that their marketing department are being smart with their wording in so much as you can get a wall box with a CCS adaptor to charge your car, but the bi-directional may only be possible with the CHADeMO. Either way, it looks promising. I’m keen to explore their website in more detail. Thanks!
I highly doubt a normal wall box would offer it. That would require a high end inverter to turn it back into AC, and you couldn't hook it directly into a circuit but would need some sort of gateway box similar to solar panels on the grid. More interesting will be if an EV could support an extra power drain and monitor it to keep track of it's battery status and shutdown the flow before it drained the battery too far.
 

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I highly doubt a normal wall box would offer it
I’m not sure I follow? I know normal wall box can’t... there are only a very few number that can and a lot of them are still in testing phase.
 

jlauro

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I’m not sure I follow? I know normal wall box can’t... there are only a very few number that can and a lot of them are still in testing phase.
The main reason is it would greatly increase the price. It's not something that would make sense to be standard as it would also require extra support that only a portion of people with solar power are likely to have. I suppose if the electric company offers different rates based on time of time it could be useful to more, but if you did that daily instead of only during a power outage that would wear out your car's battery pack faster, and I am sure that type of daily use would void the warranty on the vehicle's battery.
 

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The main reason is it would greatly increase the price. It's not something that would make sense to be standard as it would also require extra support that only a portion of people with solar power are likely to have. I suppose if the electric company offers different rates based on time of time it could be useful to more, but if you did that daily instead of only during a power outage that would wear out your car's battery pack faster, and I am sure that type of daily use would void the warranty on the vehicle's battery.
Cool... I feel like you’re answering questions I didn’t ask? But anyway the average house in England doesn’t have as much a power draw as you’d get when you accelerate in an EV... not unless you boil the kettle, run the clothes dryer and a few hair dryers and the microwave etc all at once... you’ll get a really low steady draw with some peaks. We don’t run AC 24/7 like a of places in the states. Our heating is often gas. It’s never putting anywhere near as much demand on the battery as you would when driving, so I don’t think it’s going to wear the battery out any faster than someone who drives lots of miles every day, of which there are very few in the UK. But even that’s not really the appeal of V2G... it’s more around easing the demand on national grid and allowing them
to predict and plan for surges and demand and about also about trading energy, if you have the right supplier, solar panels or not. For example, right now in a quarantine where your car is used very little, if your EV was connected to a V2G box and you had the right energy supplier, you could be selling energy in your battery during the day at peak prices and putting it back in over night when the prices are low. You could then run your house off that 98kwh (ER Mach-E for argument sake) for easily 5 days with higher than usual use age. I’d probably be able to go a couple of weeks if I wanted on a 98kwh battery. The system obviously works way better if you have solar and a home battery system... particularly with good AI for energy trading and scheduled charging for your car.
 

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It certainly would be nice to get a few days of extra runtime by plugging in your EV to power your house if you don't need the miles...
And if you want do that, the car's battery is not the best method, using car as generator is and is actually fairly efficient. Small generator, 10kW running off car driven gen about 75% efficiency overall.

Adding complex stuff to car for rare power outages is very inefficient. Why cars don't carry spares anymore, waste of money, added weight, ineffecient.
 

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Cool... I feel like you’re answering questions I didn’t ask? But anyway the average house in England doesn’t have as much a power draw as you’d get when you accelerate in an EV... not unless you boil the kettle, run the clothes dryer and a few hair dryers and the microwave etc all at once... you’ll get a really low steady draw with some peaks. We don’t run AC 24/7 like a of places in the states. Our heating is often gas. It’s never putting anywhere near as much demand on the battery as you would when driving, so I don’t think it’s going to wear the battery out any faster than someone who drives lots of miles every day, of which there are very few in the UK. But even that’s not really the appeal of V2G... it’s more around easing the demand on national grid and allowing them
to predict and plan for surges and demand and about also about trading energy, if you have the right supplier, solar panels or not. For example, right now in a quarantine where your car is used very little, if your EV was connected to a V2G box and you had the right energy supplier, you could be selling energy in your battery during the day at peak prices and putting it back in over night when the prices are low. You could then run your house off that 98kwh (ER Mach-E for argument sake) for easily 5 days with higher than usual use age. I’d probably be able to go a couple of weeks if I wanted on a 98kwh battery. The system obviously works way better if you have solar and a home battery system... particularly with good AI for energy trading and scheduled charging for your car.
Was not suggesting it wasn't possible or not a good idea. My only point was that it's significantly more complicated and expensive to do a bi-directional converter, especially if you don't already have something like Solar panels and battery system for your house. It would be a nice premium option for some, but would not be practical to include it in a base unit... Maybe it could be designed to take an add-on module, but you will at a minimum need a high power inverter. Also if you want to power your house in case the grid is down, you will also need to change how the house is connected to the grid. I would expect it will add at least few thousand $$$ compared to a one way power, which is why I don't see it being part of the Ford's Wall box. That said, Ossiaco's wall box sounds interesting as it sounds like it would have those extra pieces, but they don't state how much extra for that functionality (I am guessing several thousand extra).
 

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Was not suggesting it wasn't possible or not a good idea. My only point was that it's significantly more complicated and expensive to do a bi-directional converter, especially if you don't already have something like Solar panels and battery system for your house. It would be a nice premium option for some, but would not be practical to include it in a base unit... Maybe it could be designed to take an add-on module, but you will at a minimum need a high power inverter. Also if you want to power your house in case the grid is down, you will also need to change how the house is connected to the grid. I would expect it will add at least few thousand $$$ compared to a one way power, which is why I don't see it being part of the Ford's Wall box. That said, Ossiaco's wall box sounds interesting as it sounds like it would have those extra pieces, but they don't state how much extra for that functionality (I am guessing several thousand extra).
Gotcha. Yep, agreed. You’re right, I imagine it will be costly to install, especially without an existing solar set up, as you say. I guess you’d have to try calculate how long it would take recoup your initial layout... tough to calculate when you can expect energy price fluctuations.
 

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Get that all the time with Tesla and answer is no due to issues of back feeding directly, car energy management, etc.

If you wanted to use the car's stored energy in an emergency, easiest way to do it is a generator running off car's rear wheels using a dyno type roller generator.

As EVs become more prevalent some entrepreneur will make a home generator drive via EV wheels.

All the Mach-E and other EV's mfgs need to do is have a "Generator Mode" that applies Parking brake and allows one wheel (or two if that is easier for the car to do) to have all the power.

Can it be built for less than cost of Tesla Powerwall or other battery backup?
While your optimism is to be commended...

Short answer: auto insurance industry would block commercial implementation of a “Generator Mode”.

Just the notion of an accident sending a car through a garage wall into a house.

I think you’ll just have to design that for yourself.
 

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The easiest way to do this for now is just a power inverter off your Mach E's 12 volt battery -- assuming you can find it! Here's a video that I followed to set up home power backup from my Leaf.

 
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